If power was legal

[mrhamradio]

OK,
Here's a thought. If more RF power was legal for CB radio in the USA, what power level should it be?
Say 50 watts, 100 watts? Without getting into hundreds of watts, but a fair little more than the 4 watts
we have now. Would you increase the AM power level to say 25 to 50 watts then allow 100 pep on SSB. The
idea should apply to a power level that would fit inside a radio, like the HF ham radios that do 100 watts.
Keep in mind this is not a current legal issue but a "what if" issue.

Ok, putting my fire suit on for the comments.

 

[KC4RAF]

You're prepared yourself! lol

Good idea, preparing for the forecoming comments.
Let's say that the FCC were to up the wattage to 100. There will be those who will not be satisfied with that and want more power. That's human nature. CB has it's place and many a Hams cut their teeth in that band. And it is a fun frequency untill you get the powerful stations, the channel hogs, the F*** bombers, etc. Adjusting the power up to say a hundred wouldn't harm too much, just as long as the golden screwdrivers are kept out of the radio. (somebody out there correct me, but a boost up by that amount a power will only give how many S-units; 5 or 6?) There's pro and con to your idea.

 

[jhooten]

If you allowed 10KW some idiot would want more.

 

[gewecke]

If you allowed 10KW some idiot would want more.

:lol:

73,
n9zas

 

[sdeeter19555]

I want to remember that its a rule of thumb that 100 watts is about the point where you get the most bang for the watt...once you get to 100 watts, it takes a huge increase in wattage to get another S-unit?

I've ran amplifiers (don't anymore), and a small 2-pill talked (making a clean 150 watts) talked every bit as good as my 5-pill (making well over 650 watts)...knowing what I know now, if I were to run an amp again, it wouldn't be anything larger than a 2-pill for a clean 150 watts and low power consumption.

But yes, it would be nothing different than it is now...the CB mentality is "bigger is better", always has been, probably always will be.

 

[RadioDaze]

Many HF ham rigs come stock with 100W. That's easily enough to talk overseas with a modest antenna configuration. I don't think the rest of the world wants to hear our CBers. I think 10 watts for an unlicensed radio operating in the HF spectrum is the upper end of reasonable. That probably wouldn't increase the range that much, but may improve the useability within the current range.

 

[K9WG]

I have a RS HTX-10 on 10 meters. At 25 watts I have woked the world both base and mobile. I have worked stations that with 1000 watts could hardly hear them and others at 1 watt that sounded like they were next door. Power is a very misleading thing.

 

[KC4RAF]

QRP is by far THE challenge!

There's been many a hams that worked the world with very little.

 

[sdeeter19555]

Is all about how clean the signal is...look at it this way, there are guys bleeding over five adjacent channels with stock, type-accepted radios because some hack chopped the limiter out to get those last 2 watts.

100 watts of "clean" power would cause almost no issues...but the first hack trying to get 101 watts would have it bleeding over the neighbor's toaster...so it really wouldn't matter if they made more power legal or not, there's always going to be "that guy"...regardless of whether its 2 watts or 200 watts.

 

[jim202]

Your all missing the point. The original point of CB was to provide comms for a range of about 10 to 15 miles max. It worked just fine with the 5 watts input that was authorized.

As has already been said, there will always be those that just have to be top dog and run the most they can find just to say they are on top. It doesn't get them any further distance, but sure does run up the power bill.

One point to remember that every time you double your transmitter power, you only gain 3 db. If you double the gain of your antenna from say 3 db to 6 db, the effective increase on your output is only a 3 db gain. Another way of comparing it is say you have a beam with 6 db gain. Then you stack a second beam antenna just like it with 6 db gain. The end result is you now have a total gain of 9 db not 12 db.

 

[KC4RAF]

No Jim, we've not missed the point.

The OP just wanted to know "what if". All other factors not counted.
Also that's why I posted about the "golden screwdriver" indiviual(s). As you posted, the gain isn't always as it is thought to be. Many don't understand the that.

 

[Token]

I want to remember that its a rule of thumb that 100 watts is about the point where you get the most bang for the watt...once you get to 100 watts, it takes a huge increase in wattage to get another S-unit?

Many people call 100 Watts a good compromise because 100 Watts is relatively easy to make cleanly in a compact package. To get enough power to be a significant increase from 100 W becomes a trade off, how large will it be, what kind of cooling will it require, what kind of power supply will it require, etc.

The standard is 6 dB per S unit. Few low end radios actually have a calibrated S meter.

6 dB per S unit means going from 12 Watts PEP to 100 Watts PEP (a 9.2 dB increase) would only yield about 1 and a half S units of improvement (line of sight, no propagation or capture enhancement, etc, etc).

If you are talking about AM full carrier DSB power things are a little different, but remember that 100 Watts carrier power is 400 Watts PEP, and that is a pretty significant radio, not going to be cheap to build to “clean” standards. So 4 Watts carrier to 100 Watts carrier is a 14 dB increase, just a tad over 2 S units.

Now, going from 12 Watts PEP to 1000 Watts PEP would be 19.2 dB of increase, a tad over 3 S units. And going from 4 Watts carrier power to 1000 Watts carrier power (4000 Watts PEP!) is 24 dB, or 4 S units. But this is getting into real power territory here.

Regardless, the low power of CB was chosen because it met the needs of the new service. For the purposes the new service was created 4 Watts (originally 5 Watts input), and 12 Watts PEP SSB, were and are adequate. The selection of frequency was a problem, because when the skip is in 4 Watts can’t talk around the block. Since CB has become somewhat “hobby” radio people want more power…but that is counter to the reason CB was created.

T!

 

[kb2vxa]

Let's compare a high power amp with a receive preamp to a BMF beam Moonraker 6 style. Let's not, let's just say you'll get plenty of power without running up the electric bill and risk a visit by your not so friendly FCC. You'll also have as much receive gain as you'll get from a preamp without all the noise they tend to drag in. Being directional it eliminates a whole lot of interference and even better yet, with another station so equipped you can go to "the flat side" and knock interference down by ANOTHER 10dB. So why be an outlaw alligator when you can be "worl'wi' fo sho"?

"Since CB has become somewhat “hobby” radio people want more power…but that is counter to the reason CB was created."

Just a bit of correction, when I was licensed back in '65 with the exception of one taxi company and one elderly couple who actually used their callsign (2Q5468) everyone in my area used it as a "hobby or diversion" in violation of the rules. Come to think of it I never heard the cabbies use a callsign so that leaves Walt and Helen as the only legal operators. Fast forward through all the hash mash and trash, it wasn't too long before many saw the (red tower) light and became hams where running power, working skip and running off at the lip are legal and a whole lot of fun, much more than running QRP on 40 channels.

Running off at the lip? Maybe you never observed the 5 minute time limit followed by a minimum of a 5 minute silent period or never even noticed that particular rule. It's probably taken you 5 minutes to read this so I'd better be running along...

 

[W2NJS]

Interesting thread and discussion. As I see it, the OP has the right to petition the FCC for higher power limits on the CB channels, but he could also take the "easy" way out (if indeed he wants to really run higher power) and simply get a ham license where the power limit is 1KW, which is probably what the FCC would tell him if he made a formal request to the FCC for higher CB power limits.

 

[ab3a]

At five watts AM or 12 watts SSB, it is unlikely someone could hurt himself by doing something stupid like touching the antenna.At 100 Watts, however, stupidity can hurt you. And at 1 kW, it might even kill you.

Furthermore, when the 11 meter band is open, you can talk to the world with milliwatts. If it is not, you're limited to ground wave, no matter how much power you put in to the antenna.

 

[Token]

Interesting thread and discussion. As I see it, the OP has the right to petition the FCC for higher power limits on the CB channels, but he could also take the "easy" way out (if indeed he wants to really run higher power) and simply get a ham license where the power limit is 1KW, which is probably what the FCC would tell him if he made a formal request to the FCC for higher CB power limits.

Err....ham is limited to 1.5 kW PEP, not 1 kW.

T!

 

[Token]

At five watts AM or 12 watts SSB, it is unlikely someone could hurt himself by doing something stupid like touching the antenna.At 100 Watts, however, stupidity can hurt you. And at 1 kW, it might even kill you.

Furthermore, when the 11 meter band is open, you can talk to the world with milliwatts. If it is not, you're limited to ground wave, no matter how much power you put in to the antenna.

On 11, as on 10, when the band is open you can sometimes talk the World on milliwatts if you are not competing with anyone else. But if a 12 W PEP station is on the same freq while you are running mW then you are probably going to get covered and not be heard.

And "limited by ground wave" is not a hard limit, running 100 W, compared to 4 or 12 W, will almost always result in better communications in fringe areas and also extend the maximum range of reliable communications.

T!

 

[krokus]

Upping the AM power limit to 10 or 15 Watts would be nice, as it could help cover about 5 miles, reliably.

This distance is assuming operation on channels other than 19, which is just too cluttered in urban areas, to work more than about 2 miles. (Less than a mile is more typical, from my experience.)

 

[vagrant]

With CB maybe 10w max, but that's not really going to get you much more. I'd use SSB to hear and be heard. A properly located and tuned antenna will make a big difference. Pushing 100w would just make others push 100w and you're back in the same boat if local interference was a problem. Of course now you might become a problem at 100w.

Also, keeping it at 5w allows HT's to be used and heard above the din.

 

[hhrj]

The last thing some people need is more power!
I have two that live less than a mile away that use a lot of power to talk to each other even though they can probably see each other's beams. One guy is on there constantly yelling about nothing even when nobody is talking back. He splatters all over the adjacent 5 channels and makes listening to 38 LSB impossible. He usually stays on a channel that doesn't bother me but last night he was 3 channels away and I just turned my radio off for the night. I was hoping to repeat the results of an antenna change that resulted in a 500mi contact the night before. The band failed to open last night so no big loss.

I don't run any power and although my radio is tweaked a little I have no desire to use an amp. Plus I'm not allowed to put up any real antenna system to use the power if I had it. Besides, with my luck I'd be the one that gets busted!!! After all, isn't there a limit on distance? Like 155mi max....

OH no, someone is knocking at the door!!!! I GOTTA GO HIDE UNDER THE BED>>>>>>>>>