AR-DV10 Internal images and tests

[MStep]

DMR - Wouldn't Count On It

As far as Icom "getting" DMR into their radios later, I'm the kind of guy that believes it when I see (hear) it. So many rumors swirling around, but it just does not make sense that they would have left it out of the R30 and the R8600 given how popular DMR is, not just on the business bands, but on ham bands as well. Unless they are planning to follow the "Uniden" model of unlocking features via firmware after a product is released, or plan on introducing a hardware upgrade, I would not buy an Icom based solely on speculation about "possible" digital modes being added.

palmerjrusa - ICOM and AOR will never get Trunking , its why their Receivers are Superior in my opinion, what did we do before Trunking ? we simply programmed the banks Leaving out the control channel. I regualry monitor Trunking Frequencies on my AOR 1000. ICOM is repotingly getting DMR later.

 

[billybob]

Everyone should keep an eye on any serial numbers after ##630999 for any board or component differences. If anyone has higher please notify the forum.

I have a serial number of ##670000.

 

[tumegpc]

As far as Icom "getting" DMR into their radios later, I'm the kind of guy that believes it when I see (hear) it. So many rumors swirling around, but it just does not make sense that they would have left it out of the R30 and the R8600 given how popular DMR is, not just on the business bands, but on ham bands as well. Unless they are planning to follow the "Uniden" model of unlocking features via firmware after a product is released, or plan on introducing a hardware upgrade, I would not buy an Icom based solely on speculation about "possible" digital modes being added.

Apparently there has been several request's for ICOM to add DMR to the R30. When I called Icom to ask about the release of their software I also inquired about DMR and was told that Icom has already put in a request to Icom Japan. Like MStep said , I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[tumegpc]

Another $100 price drop for the AR-DV10.
Now selling at $899.95 at various places.

Wonder if they're having a lot of trouble selling this receiver?

I would say yes. 1. The price is a little steep for the average consumer. 2. There are known bugs that are still needing attention. 3.The competition just release a similar product that is doing very well for several hundred dollars cheaper.

I think the AR-DV10 has a lot to offer and I'm hoping AOR can tunes things up. We'll see here in the next few weeks.

 

[palmerjrusa]

I would say yes. 1. The price is a little steep for the average consumer. 2. There are known bugs that are still needing attention. 3.The competition just release a similar product that is doing very well for several hundred dollars cheaper.

I think the AR-DV10 has a lot to offer and I'm hoping AOR can tunes things up. We'll see here in the next few weeks.

It's normal to see a price reduction for amateur radio equipment after it's been on the market for a year or so but I can't remember seeing anything being reduced so fast after being introduced. I was/am interested in the AR-DV10 but will now be extremely wary before purchasing it. I would need to be sure it's not only capable of doing what's its advertised as being able to but also doing it well as is the case for the ic-r30, which, as you said, is also hundreds of dollars cheaper.

 

[dmaria]

It's normal to see a price reduction for amateur radio equipment after it's been on the market for a year or so but I can't remember seeing anything being reduced so fast after being introduced. I was/am interested in the AR-DV10 but will now be extremely wary before purchasing it. I would need to be sure it's not only capable of doing what's its advertised as being able to but also doing it well as is the case for the ic-r30, which, as you said, is also hundreds of dollars cheaper.

The DV1 is still the same price as the day it was released.

 

[palmerjrusa]

The DV1 is still the same price as the day it was released.

Not.
It was $1099.00 at Universal Radio now it's $999.95

It was $1099 at HRO, now it's $899.95.

 

[dmaria]

Not.
It was $1099.00 at Universal Radio now it's $999.95

It was $1099 at HRO, now it's $899.95.

You were saying the price of equipment drops after the first year. I said the the price hasn't changed for the DV1. I didn't say the DV10. Just proving the point that the price doesn't necessarily change as you state.

 

[MStep]

My observation is that the price of the AOR DV1 has remained remarkably consistent over that past several years. I have several friends who keep asking if mine is for sale--- they're getting tired waiting for a price reduction. Even the introduction of the Icom R 8600 has not put a dent into the DV1's price.

On the other hand, with the unfortunately situation with the "drift" being reported on the DV10, along with the introduction of the Uniden SDS100 and the Icom R30 at pretty much the same time, one would expect that AOR might attempt to make the pricing a bit more competitive.

 

[marlbrook]

Who is taking the financial 'hit' now

It is unlikely that AOR are reducing their own prices for the DV10, as they are still, publicly at least, trying to 'bluff' their way out.

Most probably the Dealers are trying to offload their current DV10 stock as quickly as possible by testing the Market re. price reductions, hoping to minimise their own potential losses.

Sadly that does indicate Dealers have no reason to expect AOR to do the right thing by recalling the current Radio's and either modifying, or replacing them once the hardware problems have been identified and potential solutions discovered / applied.

AOR are still risking their previously excellent reputation in the long term, however it is the Dealers who are suffering ever diminishing sales, and having to refund money now. In this day and age they cannot afford to be stuck with a product that they have paid for, but cannot sell.

That will eventually filter back to AOR financially, as there will be fewer or any repeat orders. Their dilemma being a loss of reputation and no more DV10 production runs, or taking the self imposed 'hit', admitting the problem and releasing a 'fixed' DV10.

What a mess. The DV10 should be making AOR and their Dealers a lot of money. Rightly so, if only the hardware fault(s) had not been allowed to slip through apparently undetected..

 

[SteveSimpkin]

AOR should take note of the actions of the former Hewlett Packard when it discovered a bug after introducing the HP-35, the world's first pocket scientific calculator in 1972.

Hewlett-Packard Integrity and "The Bug".
The HP-35 calculator had numerical algorithms that exceeded the precision of most mainframe computers at the time. During development, Dave Cochran, who was in charge of the algorithms, tried to use a Burroughs B5500 to validate the results of the HP-35 but instead found too little precision in the former to continue. IBM mainframes also didn't measure up. This forced time-consuming manual comparisons of results to mathematical tables. A few bugs got through this process. For example: 2.02 ln, ex resulted in 2 rather than 2.02. When the bug was discovered, HP had already sold 25,000 units which was a huge volume for the company. In a meeting, Dave Packard asked what they were going to do about the units already in the field and someone in the crowd said "Don't tell?" At this Packard's pencil snapped and he said: "Who said that? We're going to tell everyone and offer them, a replacement. It would be better to never make a dime of profit than to have a product out there with a problem".
HP-35

 

[G7HID]

AOR Ali says:

 

[palmerjrusa]

Even if they fix all the firmware bugs, if the frequency drift problem isn't addressed and fixed and it's present in all the receivers manufactured to date then the receiver is useless.

For a company such as AOR to have allowed this to happen is unfathomable. What are they going to do next? Include a memo with all receivers stating "when using this receiver add "x" kHz to the transmit frequency for optimum reception".

 

[billybob]

I bought an AOR DV10. How do I test for frequency drift without any test equipment. Do I tune into a weak station and put the tuning steps at .5 KHZ and see where the signal peaks? Was there a certain batch of radios with the drift problem. If so what was the range of serial numbers.

Thanks

 

[palmerjrusa]

I bought an AOR DV10. How do I test for frequency drift without any test equipment. Do I tune into a weak station and put the tuning steps at .5 KHZ and see where the signal peaks? Was there a certain batch of radios with the drift problem. If so what was the range of serial numbers.

Thanks

You could try doing this with your AR-DV10:

https://www.aoruk.co.uk/aor-dv10-no-use-for-ssb-cw-on-70cm-due-to-frequency-error-and-drift/

 

[billybob]

No beacons here on the 70 cm band in San Diego. I just tried it on a voice freq with some hams talking but to no avail. I'm just not seeing the problem with my radio. I mainly use it for Ham, and other utility stations. I have not tried it on the HF bands yet. I seem to have a higher serial number than the XX630000 number posted.

 

[palmerjrusa]

You could try looking around for a carrier signal in that region and see if it drifts.

Maybe also try one of the time signal frequencies on HF on a low bandwidth setting and see if it stays on the signal.

 

[billybob]

I will try that. Thanks for the info

 

[palmerjrusa]

I will try that. Thanks for the info

Please report back your findings, be interested to know!

 

[marlbrook]

Testing

No beacons here on the 70 cm band in San Diego. I just tried it on a voice freq with some hams talking but to no avail. I'm just not seeing the problem with my radio. I mainly use it for Ham, and other utility stations. I have not tried it on the HF bands yet. I seem to have a higher serial number than the XX630000 number posted.

1. Bear in mind the drift gets larger with frequency.

2. Find your local VOLMET Air frequency. They use USB, and many transmit all the time.

Here are a few frequencies:-
3485, 6604, 10051, 13270 United States/Canada New York, Gander
6754, 15034 Canada Quinte West (Trenton Military)
3413, 5505, 8957, 13264 Europe Shanwick
5450, 11253 Europe St. Eval (Military One)
4742, 11247 Europe Mount Pleasant (Viper), Akrotiri (Cyprus)
2863, 6679, 8828, 13282 Oceania Honolulu, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Auckland
2965, 6676, 11387 Southeast Asia Brisbane, Calcutta, Bangkok, Karachi, Singapore, Bombay (Mumbai)
3458, 5673, 8849, 13285 Southeast Asia Guangzhou, Beijing

3. Once you have found a strong VOLMET signal, make a note of it. Not necessarily the frequency showing on the DV10, unless it is still 'cold', but the one stated in your reference findings.

4. Make sure your DV10 has not heated up. If necessary stand it in front of a fan until it feels cold, or as a last resort pop it into a Fridge for a few minutes, wrapped in a towel.

5. Turn the DV10 on, select a low IFBW. When the correct VOMET USB frequency is entered you should hear the voice clearly, without re-tuning. i.e. the DV10 will be 'on frequency'

6. See what happens over a time period up to an hour. The chances are the voice will have become unintelligible unless you manually re-tune. If that happens make a note of the frequency the DV10 is showing then you can calculate the 'drift'

---------------------
There is no evidence to suggest AOR have made any changes to any DV10's regarding the heat related drift, so the serial numbers are not relevant.

As I said, the higher the frequency, the greater the drift. So at VHF and UHF, particularly with Digital Signals, any significant drift is likely to cause a number of all but the strongest Digital Signals to be missed. The Radio will just stay silent. You can only ascertain that if you have another Digital Radio monitoring those frequencies.

Of course the AR-DV10 receives many signals, however one has to decide whether a Radio that cannot be relied upon to be receiving the actual signal displayed is good enough. The AR-DV1 for example is spot on frequency all the time.

If you find the frequency drifts, as others have, you need to decide what to do. Keep the Radio or return it.

Unless AOR are prepared to recall the DV10's and correct this fault properly in hardware, one can be left with a very attractive Handheld that does not match its specifications to such an extent that it is not really 'fit for purpose'.

I hope that either openly, or covertly, AOR put new DV10's right, but until convinced of that, very reluctantly I will not buy another.