Inyo NF Radio System

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silverspy

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Hello,
I was wondering if anyone had any information on frequencies for the Inyo National Forest. The information I have is that there are two remote bases on UHF. Also, the current listing for the repeater sites makes reference to a site "Sweetwater" using tone 10 and I was wondering what area that site covered. I'm also a little confused about the new "Admin" net on 168.725, why would they put a different net on the input frequency of the Forest Net? The information I have also lists 168.775/168.175 and 169.895/170.475 as Service Nets 2 and 3, respectively and 173.7625 as an extender frequency. Anyway, I was wondering about the accuracy of all of this and would greatly appreciate any feedback. It sounds like ExSmokey is very knowledgeable about the Eastern Sierra area, so hopefully he reads this post. Also, I recently read an article that stated that the Toiyabe NF, along with the rest of Region 4, is in the process of converting to P-25 digital, has anyone heard anything about this? Thanks.
 

Mick

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Inyo N.F. frqs.

Hello. Here's my collection:

Inyo N.F.
1. 168.125S Forest Net
2. 168.125R Forest Repeater Net
3. 168.200S NIFC Tac 2 / R-5 Crew Net
5. 171.500R Service Repeater Net
6. 170.000S R-5 Air to Ground
 

MIKEROHDE

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Listening on the Inyo

I have some old USFS "Downlink" frequencies which served as repeater pairs to link lower powered mobiles and portables with base receivers...good for listening to some fire traffic sometimes. Im not exactly sure what the current usage is on these frequencies and if someone has better info on these please way in...but i have heard some traffic on them in the last couple years. I have them for both the Inyo and the Toyiabe Forests:

415.475 Lee Vining/WhiteMtn.
415.350 Bishop/ Humbolt-Toyiabe
415.250 Mammoth
415.275 Lone Pine/Mt. Whitney/Humbolt-Toyiabe
415.225 Humbolt-Toyiabe
 

MIKEROHDE

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By the way

whats the extender frequency you list do? 173.7625?
 

mkewman

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inyo county...in yo county. heh, that cracks me up.

extender frequencies are usually used with in-car repeaters. a handheld transmits nearby, the car picks it up, and retransmits it on another frequency. now i'm not familiar with their setup but i assume thats what it is.
 

SCPD

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I drafted a response to this last weekend and now see that it never posted. It was on the screen right after I submitted it so I can't explain what happened. I didn't intend to have such an extended reply time to a question about the eastern Sierra region, especially for the Inyo National Forest, the last of four NF's in my career, where I spent 11 years.

The Inyo's frequency use changed during late summer/early fall of 2004 as the Forest prepared to meet the January 1, 2005 due date to convert to narrowband. I was able to take a look at an Inyo NF radio at that time and find out what the new lineup was. The big change consisted of a new net called the "Administrative Net" or most often referred to as "Admin". This is similar to many other National Forests in Region 5 of the USFS or Pacific Southwest Region. The following shows the new Forest Net/Admin Net lineup.

168.125 168.125 Forest Net Direct
168.125 173.800 Forest Net Repeater
168.725 168.725 Admin Net Direct
168.725 173.8375 Admin Net Repeater

It is not unusual to take the Forest Net repeater input and make it the repeater output for the Admin Net. Several other Forests in R5 have done the same. They then pick up two new frequencies to create two repeater pairs.

The extender frequency is now 164.175, but I don't think extenders are in place in the field. The extenders used on this Forest are not the vehicle repeater type like those of the CHP and other public safety agencies. They are small single frequency devices that are set up to "extend" the coverage of a given repeater by packing them (horse and/or foot) to a ridge or peak that will cover the blind area. They used to consist of two surplus Motorola MT500 handhelds contained in two small ammo cans. There was an antenna for the radio that transmitted and received the extender frequency and another for the radio that transmitted on the repeater input frequency (formerly 168.725 and now 173.800) and received on the repeater output of 168.125. The goal was to make the extenders as light and non-bulky as possible so they could be put in panniers on mules or into packs on people. Two antennas were used and I believe this eliminated the need for a duplexer. The extenders are not cross band like most I've seen in use for vehicle extenders. They worked well for the very low price they cost, which was due to the resourcefulness of the long time radio tech the Inyo NF had until the end of 2004.

The building and maintenance of the radio system was then outsourced to private contractors in spite of the USFS knowing they were already doing the job far better and cheaper than any outside firm could do. It was shoved down their throats. I don't think the contractor knows enough about radio or is dedicated enough to make sure the extenders were placed out in the field. This is causing a problem with the Admin Net as I keep hearing the dispatcher telling field units they cannot control this net from Bishop. This could also be due to additional reasons one being that funding may not have been sufficient to put a remote base on Silver Peak (northeast of Bishop) or if there is a technical issue I don't know about.

Also in use on the Inyo are the frequencies of 164.150 (R5 Work Channel) and 170.525 (R5 data channel). The work channel is a tactical for field use only and gives non-fire management units a frequency so they don't have to use one of the NIFC tacticals. The regional data channel is used for packet and APRS. The packet units are a small keyboard/screen combination that is wired into the side of a King radio using the normal mike jacks. These units are carried by trail crews and some wilderness rangers to the needed locations. They use them to communicate things that used to tie up the Forest Net for long periods such as supply/food orders and payroll times for crewmembers or rangers. APRS units are put in all fire apparatus and law enforcement vehicles, as well as on over snow vehicles. The dispatcher can then track the location of these units on real time.

The list of link frequencies reflects the old allocation when there was more than one remote base station on the Forest. Most of these remotes were removed about the time the repeaters were converted from burst tone access to CTCSS in the early 80's. Now the only remote bases are on Silver Peak for controlling the Forest Net from the dispatch center and other Bishop locations or are one of the zone (north and south) "nets.” These allow the dispatcher to work Forest Net from the Mammoth Airport to control the northern repeaters and another was located at the Ranger Station in Lone Pine for the southern repeaters. Each zone could be worked from separate consoles when thinks got busy. The Forest is spread out over a long north-south distance and field units cannot receive units which may be broadcasting to the dispatcher and can cover a lot of traffic, requiring the dispatcher to announce to units either in the north or south to standby for traffic from the other area. I've not tried to figure out the frequency use for this part of the system. I don't know if this is the current setup. I do know that the Forest Net remote base on Silver uses 415.475 for a downlink and 406.475 for an uplink.

The Admin Net uses 415.350 for a downlink as I have copied traffic on it when 168.725 is transmitted, however, I've not copied 406.350 uplink traffic and this may account for dispatch reporting they can't control the Admin Net.

One of these days I need to visit USFS employee acquaintance of mine in Bishop who could tell me the current status of all frequency use on the Inyo and whether this zone link system is now in place. The 2005 fire season was so quiet here that I never heard the Forest Net busy enough to demand the traffic be split.

There is a remote for the National Air Guard of 168.625 that uses 415.550 down and 406.550 up. This is a commonly used pair for Air Guard in R5. Before narrow banding the uplink was always 4 MHz lower than the downlink but the new allocation is to have the uplink 9 MHz lower. As far as I know a remote base for the National Flight Following frequency of 168.650 has not been installed on the Inyo NF. I would assume it would be put on Silver Peak if this installation were made.

As for tones the same locations for Forest Net repeaters and the tones they use have been in place for quite some time. They are:

Tone 1 (110.9) Mt. Warren (northwest of Mono Lake)
Tone 2 (123.0) Mammoth Mountain (in the top gondola building)
Tone 3 (131.8) Glass Mountain (north of Crowley Lake)
Tone 4 (136.5) Keynot Peak (on BLM land in the southern Inyo Mountains)
Tone 5 (146.2) Cerro Gordo Peak (east of the Owens Dry Lake)
Tone 6 (156.7) Olancha Peak (near the town of the same name)
Tone 7 (167.9) Piper Peak (east of the Fish Lake Valley and Dyer, NV) this repeater covers the shadow of Silver on the east side of the White Mtns.
Tone 8 (103.5) Silver Peak
Tone 9 (100.0) June Mountain Ski Area (near the top of Chair J-6)
Tone 10 (107.2) Sweetwater Electronic Site (northeast of the U.S. 395 State Highway 108 junction.

These repeaters now transmit the input tone on their outputs.

I believe that repeaters on the Admin Net in the same locations were planned, however, I have not heard traffic on Mt Warren, June, Keynot, Cerro Gordo, Olancha, and Piper. As this net is not used much at all, this may not indicate the lack of repeaters in this location, but the lack of traffic using it in those locations. I have the feeling however, that the Admin Net system was not completed after the USFS radio tech retired.


There was a plan to relocate Keynot to Mazourka Peak (northeast of the town of Independence) because Keynot required helicopter access for maintenance most of the time. A rough road and walk-in is required otherwise.

The Inyo NF and Bishop Field Office BLM fire management organizations are merged with the Fire Management Officer FMO (a USFS employee) for both being the same person. The AFMO is a BLM employee and the BLM has one battalion chief stationed in the Lee Vining area. The Bishop Field Office has lands in the Antelope Valley area (not to be confused with the valley of the same name near Palmdale) south of Topaz Lake in northern Mono County. This is what makes the Sweetwater Repeater necessary.

The BLM net with repeaters on Silver, Potato Peak (east of Bridgeport) and Cerro Gordo is used infrequently as a second net that dispatch can control. It doesn't work very well and its coverage is limited.

(continued)
 
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SCPD

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There is also the Inyo NF's Service Net on 171.500 with an input of 172.400. Repeaters are located on June (Tone 9), Bald Mountain (Tone 3 and located east of the Crestview area between Mammoth and June Lake), Silver (Tone 8), and Mazourka (Tone 4). A repeater on Olancha Peak (Tone 6) was proposed but I don't think it was ever put in place

You had another question concerning the listing of Service Nets 2 and 3. My information shows those as a proposal about the time the document “Plan Caldera” was prepared in the 1983/1984 time period. This is or was an interagency plan to handle seismic/volcanic incidents in the eastern Sierra. It was the impetus for the replacement of the Toiyabe’s ancient radio system in the mid 80’s. The Service Nets were proposed for both the Toiyabe and Inyo National Forests. They were never put in place. One of the frequencies would have interfered with the Tahoe NF system anyway. The Humboldt was since combined under the administration of one Forest Supervisor in Sparks, Nevada, that is why you see it now listed as the Humboldt-Toiyabe.

The reported R4 conversion to P25 is probably not any different than any other area in the Forest Service or the federal government. Fire management documents I've looked at require fire management/law enforcement units to have P25 capability and they had it when the narrow band conversion was done in late 2004. They had to replace all their radios then and P25 capability was required for what was purchased. I don't think they just had fire/LE radios be P25 capable so the other functions (recreation, timber, wildlife, etc.) probably had the same requirement, but I haven't run across a document that says so. I haven't looked very hard either.

I believe this should answer all your questions and maybe more. If you have any others about the eastern Sierra region please ask. I’ve been here for nearly 25 years (24 years, six months, 8 days but who’s counting) and have done enough listening and poking around to know a few things.
 
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SCPD

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The link frequencies listed by MIKEROHDE would be good bets to be a part of the north/south zones remote base linking I spoke of in the first post, with the exceptions of 415.475 and 415.350 which I identified as being for the Silver Peak downlinks for Forest Net and Admin Net.

mkewmen's comment about the use of the word Inyo reminds me of all the similar jokes we made such as "in yo face" "in yo mind" , "in yo pocket" "in yo truck", and others. The Uinta NF and the Uinta Mountain range generated some also. I once took a great ten day backpack trip in the High Uintas. The group I was with would get up in the morning and as soon as we started hiking someone would say "you inta hiking" and others such as "you inta camping", "you inta cooking", and "you inta fishing" would be used at appropriate times also. Whenever a lightning storm would make someone uncomfortable due to its close strikes the comment "you inta lightning" would be made.

During my Forest Service career in Region 4 on the Toiyabe the Uinta NF made a lot of "innovative" changes in management that were not really so innovative once they were scrutinized. They were always getting recognition and awards for these "innovations", much to the surprise of those of us in the field who were very skeptical of the smoke and mirror solutions we often heard about. We started the expresssion "you inta brown nosing!"
 

SCPD

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Since I see silverspy is from Reno I will comment a a bit on the Humboldt-Toiyabe Natinal Forest radio system. When I arrived on the Toiyabe in 1981 the radio system consisted of a few remote bases that were linked to Reno and Eastlake using 400 MHz frequencies. Eastlake is the Western Region HQ for NDF. There was an interagency dispatch center there called "Sierra Dispatch" as it dispatched for the Sierra Front only. After awhile the name was changed to "Eastlake" to eliminate confusion with the Sierra National Forest's dispatcher. The repeaters were not selectable by burst tone or CTCSS. You just turned your radio to channel 2 and you would then be transmitting on the input frequency. Whatever repeater was in range would key up and sometimes that meant 2 or more would key up. When the dispatcher read the weather it was done on channel 2 so in the Ranger Stations, which linked to mountain top remote bases, we listened to repeaters wars while trying to copy the information.

The dispatch center at Eastlake replaced the dispatch office in the Forest's warehouse located on 2nd street in Reno. That warehouse and work center were torn down to make way for expansions of the Washoe Medical Center. The old dispatcher identified as "400" which was taken from the call sign of KOC400. Bridgeport was identified as "652" as taken from the KMB652 callsign for that location. Fire apparatus identified with numerical callsings that did not include the word engine, dozer, or patrol. All other people used their last names. This was not the stuff for clear interagency communications. When we went to call signs for individuals on the Forest, some of the old time traditional R4 folks who were not used to interagency coordination on incidents protested not being able to use numbers for the ranger stations and their last names. Typical dispatches in R4 would sound like "Smith, 472", "This is Smith go ahead Bobby", "Yea Tommy, we got a call from the Edna's son at the Meadow View Lodge and they have been smelling smoke all morning, can you mosey up that way and take a look see." They didn't like other agencies on Forest Service incidents either. Fortunately, reason won out over tradition, and the Forest now has a more professional emergency response organization.

The Plan Caldera preperation became a good reason for funding requrests so the Toiyabe's system was replaced with microwave linked remote base/repeater combinations that used CTCSS for field selection. Some of the repeaters that didn't have commercial power were linked via 400 MHz to a given microwave site.

The other benefit and one that was designed was microwave system allowed for lots of voice/data channels for linking Bridgeport and other ranger stations with a phone system independent of the commercial system. We could dial up an access code on our phones and get a Reno dial tone in Bridgeport. This saved on long distance bills. We also had dedicated circuits to Menlo Park, the headquarters of the USGS scientists who monitor the seismic activity here. The Sheriff's department was also provided many voice/data circuits. All the utilities in Mono County come from the south, except for those in the Walker-Coleville-Topaz areas. The USMC Mountain Warfare Training Center is the end of the line for Southern California Ediison and Verizon. These utilities have one path that goes down through the Long Valley Caldera and there is not a duplicate or redundent system on another path. So when the Marines call their housing area north of Coleville on the phone the signal goes all the way down to the Mojave area, over the mountains via Tehacapi Pass, up the Central Valley, over Donner Pass, into Reno, and then south through western Nevada, to northern Mono County. Several hundred miles to call only 12 miles apart by road! The Toiyabe's new radio system provided an alternate path for the USFS and the Sheriff's office.

The Toiyabe's microwave system is then piggybacked onto the Nevada state system so that the dispatcher in Minden can bring up both the Toiyabe and Humboldt's radio systems statewide. Dispatching for both Forests is actually broken up between the interagency dispatch centers in Minden, Las Vegas, Winnemucca, and Elko.
 
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Progline

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Mr Ex-Smokey,

Of all the Inyo NF channels, then is the Forest Net still the most active? I used to listen to the forest on vacation trips to Tahoe while driving up the 395. I've even been able to hear the forest dispatcher occasionally while in the Lancaster/Mojave area.

Your knowledge of the local area freqs is very impressive! About the only thing I remember about the Inyo NF was that the system had a unique 'courtesy beep' that went "beep-boop" and a very looooong hang time. Never heard another forest like that. Last time is was in the area a kindly older gentleman was working at the local Radio Shack (which is no longer a standalone store but is located inside the new Mammoth Lakes True Value Store) and he said he was preparing a Scanning Guide for the area (as opposed to the local sheet that RS's usually give out). Have you heard of that book, and do you know if that book is still available?

Thanks,
Rob
 

SCPD

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Progline said:
Mr Ex-Smokey,

Of all the Inyo NF channels, then is the Forest Net still the most active? I used to listen to the forest on vacation trips to Tahoe while driving up the 395. I've even been able to hear the forest dispatcher occasionally while in the Lancaster/Mojave area.

Your knowledge of the local area freqs is very impressive! About the only thing I remember about the Inyo NF was that the system had a unique 'courtesy beep' that went "beep-boop" and a very looooong hang time. Never heard another forest like that. Last time is was in the area a kindly older gentleman was working at the local Radio Shack (which is no longer a standalone store but is located inside the new Mammoth Lakes True Value Store) and he said he was preparing a Scanning Guide for the area (as opposed to the local sheet that RS's usually give out). Have you heard of that book, and do you know if that book is still available?

The Forest Net is the most active. If you hear the Forest Net from the Lancaster/Mojave area you are probably picking up the Olancha Peak repeater. I used to key it up from my green truck at the top of Cajon Pass.

The beeps you heard on the Inyo NF system were used to identify the repeater being received. This feature only worked on the dispatchers consoles. It used to keep the repeater keyed for quite some time and if the person responding to a call was on a different repeater the first part of their message was covered by the first repeater. It drove us nuts. It was unique to the Inyo and I've never heard anything like it anywhere and at any time. The repeaters are now configured to transmit the input tone on the output frequency and that takes care of the identification of the repeater for the dispatchers.

If the last time you were in this area was sometime between April and October of 2000, then the older gentleman was me. I worked very briefly for the Ace Hardware store in Mammoth and occasionaly helped folks in the Radio Shack, even though I was the hardware dept. manager. I had just started the frequency directory project then. I'm surprised to hear from someone that I contacted on that job, especially someone from out of the area.

I'm not working on the directory anymore as self publishing looks too time consuming considering all the other hobbies I have and the new career I've become involved in. If I could find someone willing to publish and market it I might pick it up again and update the draft. I'm off four months during the winter and could possibly complete it, however, that would depend on finding a publisher, something I'm not actively doing right now.
 

silverspy

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Wow!
Thanks again to Ex-Smokey for all the detailed information. I just returned from a trip this morning and traveled from Bakersfield over Walker Pass and up 395 all the way back to Reno. I copied Inyo Forest Net traffic on 415.250 between Lone Pine and Big Pine, the signal seemed to fade out between Big Pine and Bishop. I was not able to determine if only traffic from the South repeaters was being carried, as I was not monitoring the PL tone. In the past few days I have also heard the following: Sierra NF Emergency Net traffic on 415.475 in Mariposa (I think Mt. Bullion) and 415.575 in the Fresno area, Sierra NF Admin Net traffic on 415.325 and 415.475 in the Fresno area, Sequoia NF Fire Net traffic on 415.575 east of Fresno and 415.225 in the Porterville/Bakersfield areas. It seems that more Forests are using UHF for their backbone system. As Ex-Smokey was mentioning in another post, I guess microwave is just too cost prohibitive and difficult to maintain. Here are some other Forests where I have heard traffic on 400 MHz: Tahoe NF: 415.425 Forest Net Traffic (Mt. Rose), 415.450 Forest Net Traffic and 415.475 Fire Net Traffic (Banner Mtn, Grass Valley), 415.450 Forest Net Traffic and 415.475 Fire Net Traffic (Ruby Bluff, Downieville), 415.475 Forest Net Traffic (Sardine Peak, Sierraville). Lassen NF: 415.575 Fire Net and 415.350 Admin Net (Hamilton Ridge, Susanville). Modoc NF: 415.475 Forest Net and 415.250 Admin Net (Happy Camp Mtn, Alturas). Six Rivers NF: 415.275 Forest Net and 419.150 Admin Net (Norse Butte, Mad River). Klamath NF: 415.525 Forest Net (Gunsight Peak, Yreka). Eldorado NF: 415.325 Forest Net (Bald Mtn, Georgetown). Plumas NF used to have Forest Net on 415.225 but this has vanished, I think they went all microwave. Shasta-Trinity NF used to have several UHF frequencies, but I believe they have also converted to microwave. I also have not been able to copy any traffic from either net on 400 MHz from Stanislaus NF, I think they are also microwave. I do not have any knowledge as to whether or not Mendocino NF is using 400 MHz and also am not familiar with the Forests in the Southern part of the State (Los Padres, Angeles, San Bernardino, Cleveland).
 

silverspy

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Thanks again for all the info. You might already have some of this, but here is the current list I have for the Humboldt-Toiyabe NF Forest Net:169.875/170.475
West Net repeaters:
110.9 Slide Mtn (between Reno and Carson)
123.0 Peavine Peak (haven't heard any traffic here in some time, unknown if still in use)
123.0 Masonic Mtn (Bridgeport)
131.8 Mt. Hawkins (Woodfords, Carson River areas)
136.5 Rawe Peak (Pine Nut Mtns, East of Minden)
146.2 Lobdell (Pine Grove Electronic site, South Of Yerington)
156.7 Mean Peak (Walker River Canyon, near Sonora Junction)
167.9 Corey Peak (near Hawthorne)
103.5 Leviathan Peak (Iceburg Wilderness area) actually on alt net of 169.975/171.425, can't figure out why they would put one repeater on a separate net.

Central Net repeaters:
110.9 Mahogany (South Toiyabe Range, Tonopah Dist.)
123.0 Bald Mtn (North Monitor Range, Austin Dist.)
131.8 Austin Mtn (North Toiyabe Range, Austin Dist.)
136.5 Mt. Brock/Tonopah
156.7 Bunker Hill (Central Toiyabe Range, Austin Dist.)
167.9 Mt. Jefferson ( South Toquima Range, Tonopah Dist.)

South Net repeaters: (Spring Mountains)
123.0 Potosi
146.2 Angel Peak
156.7 Mt. Charleston

Humboldt NF Net 171.475/172.225
156.7 Mt. Hamilton (Ely Dist)
103.5 Cave Mtn (Ely Dist)
Winnemucca Mtn
Granite Peak (Winnemucca Dist)
Deer Mtn (Elko Dist, Jarbidge)
Merritt Mtn (Elko Dist)
Elko Mtn
John's Hill (Elko Dist)
Spruce Mtn (Wells Dist)
Saxton Peak(Ely Dist)
Bald Mtn (Ely Dist, Great Basin NP)
Worthington Peak (South Ely District)

Unknown if they ever finished tone selecting the other repeaters, the last I heard most of them were still accessed by only carrier, no PL, but that was years ago so things might have changed since then. I guess I should have posted this portion in the Nevada Forum.
 

gvranchosbill

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HTF West Tones

As of this posting 08/11/2011, HTF-Net was still using this format (As i hear it in Gardnerville,Nv)

Minden Dispatch KOC400

HTF-Forest.Net
169.8750/csq....170.4750/110.9(T1)(Slide)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/123.0(T2)(Peavine)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/123.0(T2)(Masonic)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/131.8(T3)(Hawkins)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/136.5(T4)(Rawe)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/146.2(T5)(Lobdell)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/156.7(T6)(Mean)
169.8750/167.9.170.4750/167.9(T7)(Corey)

HTF-Admin.Net
169.9750/csq....171.4250/103.5(T8)(Leviathan)

The tones dont continue to the output freqs except on Corey
 

ecps92

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Take a peek at
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/US_Forest_Service_-_Humboldt-Toiyabe_National_Forest_(NV)

It might need some Current cleanup and modifications from someone local listening.

As of this posting 08/11/2011, HTF-Net was still using this format (As i hear it in Gardnerville,Nv)

Minden Dispatch KOC400

HTF-Forest.Net
169.8750/csq....170.4750/110.9(T1)(Slide)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/123.0(T2)(Peavine)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/123.0(T2)(Masonic)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/131.8(T3)(Hawkins)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/136.5(T4)(Rawe)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/146.2(T5)(Lobdell)
169.8750/csq....170.4750/156.7(T6)(Mean)
169.8750/167.9.170.4750/167.9(T7)(Corey)

HTF-Admin.Net
169.9750/csq....171.4250/103.5(T8)(Leviathan)

The tones dont continue to the output freqs except on Corey
 

SCPD

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I have information for the entire Humboldt and Toiyabe National Forests radio system. There are quite a few repeaters in the central, south and eastern portions of the Forest. I will get back to you later.
 
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