Is there a FCC Mandate for Public Service going to 700-800 MHz?

[Bulldogarcher]

Read on a QRZ swampmeet post "This is what you will soon (if not already) need everywhere to hear Police, Fire and EMS as all of the Public Services will be switching to either 700 or 800 MHz very soon per the FCC's orders."

Is there a mandate of this coming up? My area is just getting into a 400 MHz DMR system and our local departments just upgraded, will they and us in scanner land about to have to buy/upgrade to 700-800MHz equipment?

 

[HudsonScannerGuy]

I dont think that'll happen soon.

 

[iMONITOR]

Read on a QRZ swampmeet post "This is what you will soon (if not already) need everywhere to hear Police, Fire and EMS as all of the Public Services will be switching to either 700 or 800 MHz very soon per the FCC's orders."

Is there a mandate of this coming up? My area is just getting into a 400 MHz DMR system and our local departments just upgraded, will they and us in scanner land about to have to buy/upgrade to 700-800MHz equipment?

I thought after 9/11 that Homeland Security was making some mandates with regards to interoperability between not only PD/FD/EMS, etc, but also cities/states/feds. That didn't turn out to be the case however.

I think a lot of these updates/changes have more to do with slick salesmen, and the complexities and demands of today's growing population and demands from public safety workers.

 

[Nasby]

If you can monitor your local public safety forces without a digital scanner, consider yourself very fortunate.

 

[ofd8001]

Well, you know what they say about the internet. . .

Sometimes it's best to go to the horse's mouth for any latest mandates, etc.: https://www.fcc.gov/public-safety/b...nd-innovation-division/narrowbanding-overview

They reference the 150 and 400 spectrum there.

 

[nd5y]

Well, you know what they say about the internet. . .

Sometimes it's best to go to the horse's mouth for any latest mandates, etc.: https://www.fcc.gov/public-safety/b...nd-innovation-division/narrowbanding-overview

They reference the 150 and 400 spectrum there.

That page is about narrowbanding.
Narrowbanding has nothing to do with 700/800 MHz.

 

[nd5y]

There is no FCC mandate to move all public safety to 700 MHz or 800 MHz.

In 2012 congress passed a law requiring public safety licensees, but not business/industrial licensees, to relocate from the UHF-T band (470-512 MHz) by 2021.
https://transition.fcc.gov/pshs/docs/T-Band_FactSheet_July2016.pdf
https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/T-Band Slick Sheet_FINAL_052015.pdf
http://urgentcomm.com/policy/fcc-official-addresses-t-band-issue-during-hearing-congress

Some licensees may be forced to move to 700 or 800 MHz because of lack of available spectrum elswhere.

This law may be repealed. It is not yet clear if any licensees will have to move.
https://www.rrmediagroup.com/News/NewsDetails/newsID/16583/

 

[12dbsinad]

Will never happen. 700/800 works OK in urban and flatland's, however in the rugged hilly rural areas it is lousy. Just ask the states that have gone 800, and are still maintaining there old lower freq system and installing 2 radios in the vehicles. Mass SP is one example, get in the western mountains and you can forget 800.

There is no one size fits all, unless you have an unlimited budget.

 

[ofd8001]

That page is about narrowbanding.
Narrowbanding has nothing to do with 700/800 MHz.

Yes, but note the section that says: "As of February 16, 2016, Bureau will dismiss all applications in the 150-174 MHz and 421-470 MHz bands that list wideband-only emissions . . . unless: (a) the application also proposes to modify the license by replacing the wideband emission designator(s) with narrowband emission designator(s)"

So I read this to mean the FCC will accept 150-174 MHz and 421-470 MHz applications as long as they are narrowband. If they are forcing a change to 700-800, why accept applications in the 150-174 MHz and 421-470 MHz bands?

 

[ipfd320]

https://www.fcc.gov/public-safety/b...nd-innovation-division/narrowbanding-overview

Check the radio service code on your FCC license. Only radio service codes IG, IK, PW, YG, YK, and YW are part of the narrowbanding requirement.
Check the frequencies on your license. Frequencies between 150-174 MHz or 421-470 MHz are part of the narrowbanding requirement.

And the OP is Asking Also About DMR/UHF--Which No One is Really Touching On--I Searched Around a Little Bit and Came Up with Nodda Except for Amateur Use Came Up on the Searches

 

[ofd8001]

What I believe happened is "verbal morphication" - kind of how a joke starts out one way and by the time it goes full circle, it's nothing like the original version.

A long time ago, perhaps back in the 1990s, there was a proceeding known as "refarming" which was intended to deal with spectrum efficiency. One of the things that came out of this was narrowbanding, which resulted in narrowing of channels and thus an increase in channel availability to deal with crowded spectrum. The narrowbanding became effective in January 2013.

That meant a lot of public safety agencies had to upgrade their radio equipment to comply. A fair number of them chose to migrate to the 700-800 spectrum. Others remained on VHF and UHF bands and upgraded equipment. Some got waivers, but waivers are going away.

So my answer to the question is "No, the FCC hasn't mandated a switch to 700-800."

 

[newsphotog]

lol, QRZ is not the place to go to learn about these things.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Sadly some of the major radio vendors like to twist facts (fake news?) when promoting their technology.

A few years back, a major city in south Florida had on its commission agenda a proposal to upgrade their 800 MHz system to digital (P25) per "FCC narrowbanding mandate". This is the sort of letter that is presented by staff to the commission and the Mayor and they of course take staff at their word that the system is obsolete and the FCC is forcing an unfunded mandate to upgrade to P25, which was patently false.

I saw these shenanigans time and again and it is so very tough to educate city IT managers and radio system managers to stop and question their trusted vendor when these lies are promulgated.

A few years prior, the same city decided to replace their 6 year old handheld radios with ones with P25 CAI fitted. I explained that they could buy the radios for $800 less without the option because their system was analog and flash them later if required. They spent that money anyhow and needed further flash upgrade to make them work with the P25 system, at which time these radios already were becoming aged. The vendor likes to keep these upgrades going and promoting sole source procurement's.

 

[Bulldogarcher]

Thank you all.
I knew I hadnt seen anything to this effect, however it has been a busy few months and I was unsure if I had missed any announcement of such.

 

[captncarp]

SSB

If you can monitor your local public safety forces without a digital scanner, consider yourself very fortunate.

My local public safety forces all use VHF l/h and now UHF and some 800 trunk. Don't know how long it will last but I am enjoying it while it does. Remember when it was all VHF low band and no repeaters? aaahh the good days!