Kenwood TK 863G

[btritch]

I have a question and I'm not sure it should be here or somewhere else, If this is wrong please feel free to relocate it to the proper forum...

I have a Kenwood TK 863G in the Closet I've had for awhile, I found out this week that we're about to move some things in the county around and might possibly be going to a UHF trunking system and there is already one UHF Trunk system in the county as well that I'd like to monitor. Not Transmit, Just Recieve, My question is this, They are both LTR UHF Trunk Systems, Is there a way to tell what radio's are connected to these if you're just monitoring and not transmitting, I ask this because one of them is a commercial trunking system that you can rent space on for so much $$ a month. I don't want to transmit, I just want to be able to listen but I'd be afraid to do that if there's a way to track who is connected to the system. I know some digital systems can do that but I'm not sure about analog LTR Trunk Systems. My Main Question Is This: If I Put in the Recieve side only to an LTR system and am not going to be transmitting on it, Is there a way the system can be tracked to tell what radio is monitoring it?

 

[code3cowboy]

The programming is essentially the same for listening only or full use of a system. If you do no program TX frequencies, you will not transmit anything. If you are not transmitting, how would anyone know you were listening? The only way I could think of would be you telling them or someone walking by your truck and hearing their system.

 

[btritch]

The programming is essentially the same for listening only or full use of a system. If you do no program TX frequencies, you will not transmit anything. If you are not transmitting, how would anyone know you were listening? The only way I could think of would be you telling them or someone walking by your truck and hearing their system.

Ok, That's exactly what I was thinking.. Thank You!
I'm doing the same thing already with a scanner but we're about to swap the channel I have to have over to UHF and I have to have a UHF radio anyway So I just figured kill two birds with one stone.. That's how I figured it would Work. Thanks For The Info.

This radio won't let you program a UHF system without having a transmit in.. So, What I'm going to do, is instead of the real transmit freq, Put in a FRS one.. That way incase of accidental keyup.. It'll be on Family Radio Service Channels and not that system..

 

[ramal121]

This radio won't let you program a UHF system without having a transmit in.. So, What I'm going to do, is instead of the real transmit freq,

You're probably seeing the autofill of the transmit freq after you type in the receive freq. Just select the transmit box and blank it, then press enter. No transmit at all!

 

[btritch]

You're probably seeing the autofill of the transmit freq after you type in the receive freq. Just select the transmit box and blank it, then press enter. No transmit at all!

I tried that. It deletes the entire frequency when you do that. But I'll try it again, I'm open for suggestions..

 

[btritch]

also, There's an encodeID and a decodeID, I only need the one that will work for recieve. Is that the Decode ID?

Sorry again, It's my first trunk system on an actual radio..

 

[ramal121]

OK, you tweeked me and I had to check. You are right, you cannot blank just the transmit as you can with a conventional channel. I even checked on software for a couple different models, the same.

You mentioned the IDs. Yes you need the correct decode ID to receive. Try blanking the encode(transmit) ID. If it won't blank, throw a bogus ID in there. Try the high ones like 200 to 255. If the trunk system is not programmed to accept an ID, when you transmit, the transmit light flashes a few times then you get the out of range tone. If that happens you know you are not being repeated through the system.

 

[btritch]

OK, you tweeked me and I had to check. You are right, you cannot blank just the transmit as you can with a conventional channel. I even checked on software for a couple different models, the same.

You mentioned the IDs. Yes you need the correct decode ID to receive. Try blanking the encode(transmit) ID. If it won't blank, throw a bogus ID in there. Try the high ones like 200 to 255. If the trunk system is not programmed to accept an ID, when you transmit, the transmit light flashes a few times then you get the out of range tone. If that happens you know you are not being repeated through the system.

I will do that.. I also threw in some Bogus FRS frequencies for the transmit. Not going to use them anyway. But IF I need them to track the system I'll do the ID think like you mentioned.
Ok the Encode WILL let me blank It.. I can do that, If I don't have an encode ID it won't key up the repeater, I don't plan too anyway but you know how buttons get bumped.

 

[code3cowboy]

I just toyed with a UHF trunk system, just leave the encode ID blank and see how it works. In the system I tested on, kerchunking with no encode ID did NOT key the system.

 

[btritch]

I just toyed with a UHF trunk system, just leave the encode ID blank and see how it works. In the system I tested on, kerchunking with no encode ID did NOT key the system.

That's what I have done... We'll find out when I install it this weekend.. Thanks Guys For All Your Help, I Didn't know a thing about a trunked system but I do now.. Thank You, Will Let Ya Know How It Works..

 

[btritch]

Scanning

Hey guys, if I have more than 1 trunk system installed in a single radio. How Do I get it to scan more than 1 system or the same system, I have to be on the same channel to hear them, If I have scan enabled I'm not hearing the other channels besides the one I'm on. How/Can I fix That? Can I Scan Multiple Systems Also? Even If Not, Just The One?
That's the only thing I haven't figured out yet.

 

[code3cowboy]

The software defaults everything you enter to be in the scan list. You have to go through and lock out each group and system you do not want to scan.

I found the radio to always be scanning and I would miss calls because someone was giving a lazy base station report.

 

[btritch]

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I left everything at the default but it wasn't swapping Ids last night like it was scanning even though it said scan on the display. Does the black triangle beside the group on the displayean scan or no scan?

 

[ramal121]

Triangle means that system is locked out from scan.

Trunked scanning is a little oddball in this model although scan is being changed in newer models to be a little more user friendly.
The way yours works, you can select fixed system scan which allows the user to lock out systems by pressing a button. The other option is list scan and you build a scan list for each system and it cannot be modified by the user.

When you scan a system with multiple group IDs, the radio will scan all IDs unless a group is set " group lockout=yes". Now the funny thing is, if you turn scan off, you still scan all the groups of the system you are sitting on. To prevent this, set all groups as " group lockout=yes" except one, leave as "group lockout=no". The only way to change this parameter is via the software which is a bummer. The newer TK-8180 allows users to select trunked systems and groups from the front panel the same way conventional zones and channels are added / deleted.

Another trick for trunked systems. If you want to monitor the entire system, even to hear those groups that you don't have an ID for, go to system edit and look for block IDs. Set decode start to 1 and end to 250. The radio will unmute on on any group this way although it will not display the IDs, you just listen.

 

[ramal121]

Oh, almost forgot. Go to scan edit and make sure "off hook scan" is checked...

 

[btritch]

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I ran it for awhile last night and finally decided the triangle that was on the screen was for lockout and took it off the system, but I still didn't have scanning, just sitting in one channel, so here in a bit I'm going to try what you've said above, there's got to be something set wrong, I know this thing has to at least scan the same system...I will check/change some settings and let you know. Thanks very much for your help thus far! It's greatly appreciated.

 

[btritch]

Oh, almost forgot. Go to scan edit and make sure "off hook scan" is checked...

Ok i'm not sure what off hook scan is but it was NOT checked... I just checked it, And I also set it with the Code thing from 1 to 250. What's the best way to hear all of the ID's I have in there on a trunked system, I do have one county next to me and one that I visit frequently that is UHF conventional, What's the trick to scanning conventional frequencies, Fixing the thing for trunked should fix the conventional too shouldn't it? I changed it to Off hook scan though, it was not checked, I'm not sure what it's for or what the purpose is but I believe you would know better than me so I did put a check in that box. I can say the one channel I did hear last night from about 40 miles away sounded great and crystal clear compared to the very same agency on VHF which was exremely fuzzy, I have a feeling I'm going to like the UHF a lot better than VHF, Again thanks for all of your help so far. I have changed the off hook scan setting and I'm going to check the settings on the rest right now.. What about on each Trunked Channel, The one that says Off Hook Decode? Should It Be Checked Too?

 

[btritch]

Ok, Here's what happened.. I went through and Checked "Off Hook Decode" and "Off Hook Scan" On A Fix System Scan and went and took out the Group Lockout on all but One Conventional System that's a ways away I'll open when I need it. And haven't heard anything yet but it does say "--Scan--" Across the screen now instead of just scn at the top. That's an improvement.. What Else To Get The Best Tweak And Peak Out Of It?

Again, You Don't Know How Much I Appreciate It.. I Know Nothing About A UHF Trunk System.. This Is My First..

oh and when it scans theres a black arrow (looks like the lockout arrow) that flashes on the left of the word scan.. Is that normal?

 

[ramal121]

On hook/off hook refers to the mic. The button has an electrical contact and it knows when it is in the mic clip. By default, scan stops when you lift the mic out of the clip (radio assumes you want to make a call on that channel). Checking off hook scan defeats this.

Off hook decode is for conventional channels only. Normally you'd have a QT decode to restrict your reception on a channel to a certain user. Removing the mic from the clip disables the QT decode and you now hear everyone. It is required to monitor a shared channel before transmit. Off hook decode defeats this.

Let it run and see what happens. Should be scanning now. The triangle flashing during scan indicates there is still a lock out somewhere and the radio is bypassing a system or group. For now, I would set all groups as "group lockout = no" to confirm it is scanning, then maybe go back later and set to yes if there is one you don't really want to scan.

 

[btritch]

With the current settings listed above that I have in there now it is successfully scanning all trunked and conventional channels as supposed to and they're coming in loud and clear. I will have to get it the way I want but at least I know what to do now to make it work. I want to thank you again for helping me with that, I wouldn't have a clue what to do to get it to work, I really do appreciate it, Thank You.