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Kenwood trunking question

nucleaireqc

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
145
Hello!

I have a few questions about Kenwood's Type-C trunking!

Q=Question
Q1: Do you absolutely need a system key to listen to a trunked system?
Q2: If authentication is enabled (DSD+AUTH), is authentication enabled? If so, are there different types of authentication?

These questions are a bit unclear for my answers!

Because if you absolutely need a system key to listen and obtain it from the owner, why choose authentication?

Thank you for your answers!
 

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mmckenna

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I can't answer the DSD questions, but I do run a Type-C system and can answer that:
Hello!

I have a few questions about Kenwood's Type-C trunking!

Q=Question
Q1: Do you absolutely need a system key to listen to a trunked system?

No. Scanners/SDRs will decode traffic just fine.

The only time you need a system key is for programming a Kenwood radio to access the system. The Kenwood NexEdge radios will -not- decode traffic from a NexEdge system unless the radio is properly programmed (requires the system key) and the radio has been added to the system controller (UID + matching ESN) and enabled.
 

nucleaireqc

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
145
I can't answer the DSD questions, but I do run a Type-C system and can answer that:


No. Scanners/SDRs will decode traffic just fine.

The only time you need a system key is for programming a Kenwood radio to access the system. The Kenwood NexEdge radios will -not- decode traffic from a NexEdge system unless the radio is properly programmed (requires the system key) and the radio has been added to the system controller (UID + matching ESN) and enabled.
If the authentication feature is enabled, is the "ID and ESN" required? There's no other authentication solution!

A system key is already required and difficult, if not impossible, to obtain!!
 

mmckenna

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If the authentication feature is enabled, is the "ID and ESN" required? There's no other authentication solution!

The system requires that the radio UID be entered. There is an option in the system settings to require that the radio ESN be entered in the system, also. If that is done, the system looks as the UID and the radio ESN must match what is programmed in the system.

So, someone copying another UID from an active radio won't be able to access the system as their radios ESN will not match. ESN's are hardcoded into the radio controller and can't be messed with/changed in software.

Prevents "Non-Affiliate Scan" with the Kenwood radios. Also, when I kill a radio in the system, it not only can no longer transmit, but it can't even hear traffic. Someone buying a Kenwood radio cannot access my system unless it's programmed correctly with the correct system keys, and the radio UID and ESN are in my system and activated.

A system key is already required and difficult, if not impossible, to obtain!!

On purpose.
To access the trunking system, the trunking system manager software requires a USB security dongle. I have two of those for my system and they are kept under lock and key. Without the USB security key, you can't log into the system. If i try to and forget to plug in the key, the system management software shuts down when I try to open it.
Accessing the trunking system itself requires a password, even if you have the software and the USB security key. Plus the system is behind a firewall, so anyone trying to access it would need to VPN into our network, know the IP addresses of the system, plus the passwords.

Programming a radio requires the system key file. The system key file is generated by the trunking system software and is specific to the software serial number of the radio programming software, so even if I sent you my system key file, it wouldn't work on your programming software unless it was activated with the same software serial number.

Since I'd been burned by other shops that had access to my system keys on my old system, I would never, ever, release the system keys, USB security keys, serial numbers, etc. Also, I do lock my system down so radio UID has to match the radio ESN. I never let anyone else program my radios or have access to the software or files. Radios all get read/write passwords so radios cannot be read by some random dude with bootleg software and an e-Bay cable.

I'm very happy with Kenwood's approach to system security. Add in a healthy dose of encryption and it's probably one of the better systems on the market. If it just ran encrypted control channels, then I'd be 100% happy.
 

gatekeep

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Sep 15, 2004
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If the authentication feature is enabled, is the "ID and ESN" required? There's no other authentication solution!

A system key is already required and difficult, if not impossible, to obtain!!
"Auth" as shown in your DSD output indicates the system in question performs a cryptographic handshake between the system controller and the subscriber radio.

EDIT: That handshake is on-top of the standard RID check *and* RID + ESN check if so enabled.
 
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