Legal ramifications of NAS programming

KevinC

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#1
If you programmed your radio(s) with any form of "Depot" software that's a definite no-no as it's a MSI internal tool only (except it leaks out :mad:).

If you obtained a consumer version of CPS from somewhere other than MSI that is software piracy.

If you used a legal copy of CPS that YOU legally obtained you are good...Except....

You need a system key file. I'm pretty sure in your CPS EULA you agree to not modify the SW in any way and I'd bet using a .key file violates that agreement. Whether you made your own key or obtained it some other way doesn't matter.

So in actuality their is no legal way for someone not authorized on a system to legally program a MSI radio on a trunked system for NAS.

And all this refers to MSI radios, but I'd imagine other brands are pretty much the same.

Flame away!
 
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#2
If you programmed your radio(s) with any form of "Depot" software that's a definite no-no as it's a MSI internal tool only (except it leaks out :mad:).



If you used a legal copy of CPS that YOU legally obtained you are good...Except....



You need a system key file. I'm pretty sure in your CPS EULA you agree to not modify the SW in any way and I'd bet using a .key file violates that agreement. Whether you made your own key or obtained it some other way doesn't matter.



So in actuality their is no legal way for someone not authorized on a system to legally program a MSI radio on a trunked system for NAS.



And all this refers to MSI radios, but I'd imagine other brands are pretty much the same.



Flame away!


Such a hater



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Thunderknight

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#5
And all this refers to MSI radios, but I'd imagine other brands are pretty much the same.
I realize this is the M forum, but since you mentioned other brands... :)

Harris radios (and their predecessor brands) prior to RPM11 do not require any keys, special mods, etc. save a few large systems that had hard coded key requirements, a legal copy of RPM can easily program a radio for very safe monitoring of an EDACS or P25 system without any TX or affiliation.
I believe, based on discussions here, the BK KNG2 portable, once you select RX only, allows programming without a key.

So, there are safer options than an M radio. The safest being Unication, as it has no transmitter. Perhaps the new Uniden will rival it for safe and crisp monitoring.

Any local laws regarding possession of radios likely apply on all cases.
 
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#6
" So in actuality their is no legal way for someone not authorized on a system to legally program a MSI radio on a trunked system for NAS."


If you have a legal copy of CPS, program all of the system frequencies into a CONVENTIONAL zone using RX-ONLY personalities with NAC=7FE, and scan them, you will hear all of the traffic on the system that is not encrypted.

Where has a law been broken?
 
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#7
If you have a legal copy of CPS, program all of the system frequencies into a CONVENTIONAL zone using RX-ONLY personalities with NAC=7FE, and scan them, you will hear all of the traffic on the system that is not encrypted.

Where has a law been broken?


He’s not talking about that method, which is pretty useless on a busy system.


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#8
I think when Congress eventually gets their collective head out of their *** and consumer "right to repair" (and modify, customize, retrofit, etc.) becomes law, you'll be able to do whatever you want with whatever you legally own as long as it does not violate other laws (ie, interfering with public safety communications, etc.). If they wanted to maintain complete control over their products from cradle to grave, they should have maintained ownership of it and only leased to departments, companies, etc. But that would have cost them more money to have longer warranty and service contracts, recycling programs, lost sales of the latest and greatest. You can look at all these software and programming "gotchas" and traps set by the radio manufacturers as a way of avoiding those responsibilities, but I believe in the end it will bite them in the butt and they will be forced to allow legitimate owners of radios access to tools and software and render some of the legal issues unenforceable.
 

KevinC

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#9
" So in actuality their is no legal way for someone not authorized on a system to legally program a MSI radio on a trunked system for NAS."


If you have a legal copy of CPS, program all of the system frequencies into a CONVENTIONAL zone using RX-ONLY personalities with NAC=7FE, and scan them, you will hear all of the traffic on the system that is not encrypted.

Where has a law been broken?
Using your method no law has probably been broken, but your method isn't what is referred to as NAS (No Affiliate Scan).

Next???
 
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#11
All of these issues are a non-issue with a Relm KNG series portable which can be legally purchased from an authorized Relm dealer, and software/cable also legally purchased from said dealer.

No hacking, software modification or system keys are necessary. The "RX only" mode is officially factory supported on the KNG. No RF will ever be emitted by your radio on the control or traffic channel , no affiliation requests will ever come from your radio at all.

Or, buy a Unication G5, which doesn't have a transmitter (other than a Bluetooth radio!) and program away, again with factory software and standard USB cable.
 
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#13
Or, buy a Unication G5, which doesn't have a transmitter (other than a Bluetooth radio!) and program away, again with factory software and standard USB cable.


These are proving to work really well, especially on TDMA systems. You get all the features of an expensive subscriber unit for a fraction of the price.


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#14
Using your method no law has probably been broken, but your method isn't what is referred to as NAS (No Affiliate Scan).

Next???
It's not affiliated. It is scanning, and you can limit the traffic heard to specific NACs and/or talkgroups. This might seem like nit-picking, but it is a valid contradiction of the sweeping statement made.

I don't have a dog in this hunt other than the entertainment value of watching passionate discourse.
 
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#15
It's not affiliated. It is scanning, and you can limit the traffic heard to specific talkgroups.
I'd be interested in how to do this. I listen to a small local city this way, & it follows the conversation very well, but it would be quite useless for the much larger county system. But I would be very interested in listening to 2 local TG's on the county system w/o the NAS.
 
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#16
It's not affiliated. It is scanning, and you can limit the traffic heard to specific NACs and/or talkgroups. This might seem like nit-picking, but it is a valid contradiction of the sweeping statement made.



I don't have a dog in this hunt other than the entertainment value of watching passionate discourse.


The way you’re doing it is your scanning the conventional voice channels. The NAS method is a Radio that’s programmed just like a subscriber but the TG are scanned from a conventional channel so the radio thinks it’s out of range and doesn’t try to affiliate.


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KevinC

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#17
It's not affiliated. It is scanning, and you can limit the traffic heard to specific NACs and/or talkgroups. This might seem like nit-picking, but it is a valid contradiction of the sweeping statement made.

I don't have a dog in this hunt other than the entertainment value of watching passionate discourse.
No, it's not a contradiction. We are talking about 2 completely different methods.

Next???
 
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#19
...the TG are scanned from a conventional channel so the radio thinks it’s out of range and doesn’t try to affiliate.


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I don't mean to be pedantic, but this isn't true. This is a feature for SUs that monitor multiple systems. In many instances, it is desirable to be able to scan TGs on other systems without affiliating, which can cause many different issues.
 
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#20
The fact that this is even sticky-ed is a joke. The statements in the OP are taken as fact coming from a court or lawyer when that are not even accurate.

"You need a system key file. I'm pretty sure in your CPS EULA you agree to not modify the SW in any way and I'd bet using a .key file violates that agreement. Whether you made your own key or obtained it some other way doesn't matter.

So in actuality their is no legal way for someone not authorized on a system to legally program a MSI radio on a trunked system for NAS."

First of all there is no ELUA for APX or XTS CPS. There is a "General Software License Agreement" and a "Customer Programming Software License Agreement". If you actually read these there is nothing in them that would prohibit you from using a software system key that you created.

While I do not support people hacking or accessing a system, or people programming radio for NAS with out advanced knowledge of radios and CPS, feeding them BS info and scare tactics do not help at all.
 
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