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Licensing Rules on Private Security

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connscanner

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I have a question in regards to the FCC licensing rules. I have figured out that the frequencies used at the local mall, Westfield Shoppingtown in Trumbull, by security personnel are 464.775 and 469.775. The 469.775 is clearly used to transmit from the mobile units to the dispatch. All communication is broadcast on 464.775. The mall security can be heard on the latter frequency for a several-mile radius around the mall. The same frequencies, with a different CT Code is used at the Westfield Shoppingtown in Milford.

I am wondering why these frequencies do not come up as being registered in the FCC ULS database by any firms in Connecticut that could possibly be a private security firm or any type of holdings company. For comparison, the Trumbull Police frequencies are well documented and include specific licenses for each location of a repeater around the town.

Why is it that there is no record of a license for the mall security? Is it possible they are improperly licensed for their operations?
 

trooperdude

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Mall ownership may be domiciled in another state and won't show up on a local
search.

Security may be contracted out to a 3rd party, and their corporate office is in another state, or under another name in your state.

They may be unlicensed, or using an itinerant frequency that's licensed in another state or for nationwide operation.

etc, etc.
 

ecps92

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Many have also just expired long ago.

a.) Renewal was sent to Mall, but addressed to someone who retired, so shredded
b.) Renewal was sent to Mall and just dismissed
c.) too many other reasons.

Are you talking about "Trumbull Shopping Park" ? It's long ago expired as KNBM370
http://www.scancapecod.us/wiki/index.php/Connecticut_Malls_and_Shopping_Centers

Can you post the confirmed channels, and I will update the wiki


connscanner said:
I have a question in regards to the FCC licensing rules. I have figured out that the frequencies used at the local mall, Westfield Shoppingtown in Trumbull, by security personnel are 464.775 and 469.775. The 469.775 is clearly used to transmit from the mobile units to the dispatch. All communication is broadcast on 464.775. The mall security can be heard on the latter frequency for a several-mile radius around the mall. The same frequencies, with a different CT Code is used at the Westfield Shoppingtown in Milford.

I am wondering why these frequencies do not come up as being registered in the FCC ULS database by any firms in Connecticut that could possibly be a private security firm or any type of holdings company. For comparison, the Trumbull Police frequencies are well documented and include specific licenses for each location of a repeater around the town.

Why is it that there is no record of a license for the mall security? Is it possible they are improperly licensed for their operations?
 

KB1JHU

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464.7750 (repeater) is used by both the Trumbull Mall and CT Post Mall in Milford.
PL for Trumbull is 103.5, PL for Milford is 179.9
It is very low power at the Post Mall. Sometimes I hear Trumbull stronger than Milford even if I am just around the corner from the Post.
The Post Mall also uses 463.3500 PL 179.9 (KNNU280) but it only seems to be active on weekends. I think it is for janitorial staff. I haven't paid much attention to it, but I think they use it simplex, no repeater.

I have yet to find license information for 464.775 other than the expired WSO491

I don't think the security is an outside company. I think they are Westfield employees. They used to have Securitas and wore Securitas uniforms and had the logos on the trucks. Now all the uniforms and trucks just say Westfield.

Also, the Cinema De Lux at the Post Mall is on 452.1125 R DPL 351. They are running way more power than necessary, since I can hear them clear across town sometimes.
 

connscanner

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Just some additional food-for-thought, one of the security guards saw me in the mall with the scanner and apparently heard himself through it and came over and told me that "storing" frequencies of police or mall security was illegal and that I could listen to it at home but if I used it in public it was illegal and that if a police officer found it in my car I would be arrested. Obviously, that's all B.S., especially since CT has absolutely no law regarding the use of scanners.
I can understand that they would be unhappy with me to not use it in the mall, and if they requested that I not use it while on the premises I would be glad to comply, but spreading false information as they did is crazy.

btw, I can confirm all of KB1JHU's informaion
 
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nozzlenut83

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Search Callsign WSO491. That was the callsign written on the base station in late 1990/early 2000.

Licensed to Connecticut Post LP, expired in 2001.

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1763256

They probably never bothered to renew the license and decided that what the heck lets just the same freqs in Trumbull. Stuff like this happens all the time even with Public Safety agencies.

Hope this helps,
nozzlenut83
 
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ecps92

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Would the CT Post Mall and Westfield CT Post Mall be one and the same ?


KB1JHU said:
464.7750 (repeater) is used by both the Trumbull Mall and CT Post Mall in Milford.
PL for Trumbull is 103.5, PL for Milford is 179.9
It is very low power at the Post Mall. Sometimes I hear Trumbull stronger than Milford even if I am just around the corner from the Post.
The Post Mall also uses 463.3500 PL 179.9 (KNNU280) but it only seems to be active on weekends. I think it is for janitorial staff. I haven't paid much attention to it, but I think they use it simplex, no repeater.

I have yet to find license information for 464.775 other than the expired WSO491

I don't think the security is an outside company. I think they are Westfield employees. They used to have Securitas and wore Securitas uniforms and had the logos on the trucks. Now all the uniforms and trucks just say Westfield.

Also, the Cinema De Lux at the Post Mall is on 452.1125 R DPL 351. They are running way more power than necessary, since I can hear them clear across town sometimes.
 

connscanner

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Yeah, sorry. The malls were Trumbull Shopping Park and Connecticut Post Mall, but then Westfield bought them (which may contribute to some of the licensing issues) and they became Westfield Shoppingtown Connecticut Post and Westfield Shoppingtown Trumbull. The former is in Milford, the latter in Trumbull.

In fact, Westfield is a company incorporated in Australia, I believe.
 

ecps92

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-k wiki being updated.

FYI, I re-did the Massachusetts Malls to be Alphabetical by City/Town
would that be better for the CT List?

Any/all suggestions appreciated along with Edits.


connscanner said:
Yeah, sorry. The malls were Trumbull Shopping Park and Connecticut Post Mall, but then Westfield bought them (which may contribute to some of the licensing issues) and they became Westfield Shoppingtown Connecticut Post and Westfield Shoppingtown Trumbull. The former is in Milford, the latter in Trumbull.

In fact, Westfield is a company incorporated in Australia, I believe.
 

KB1JHU

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ecps92 said:
FYI, I re-did the Massachusetts Malls to be Alphabetical by City/Town
would that be better for the CT List?
It looks like it could be cleaned up a bit. Maybe just separate each shopping center into a different table. I have been trying to get freqs for the stores at the CT Post but I will hold off on posting anything until I have better confirmation on who is using what. A lot of the stores use FRS/GMRS. I think some others have JobCom or Moto XTN's on the common busniess freqs without licenses.
 

zz0468

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connscanner said:
Just some additional food-for-thought, one of the security guards saw me in the mall with the scanner and apparently heard himself through it and came over and told me that "storing" frequencies of police or mall security was illegal and that I could listen to it at home but if I used it in public it was illegal and that if a police officer found it in my car I would be arrested. Obviously, that's all B.S., especially since CT has absolutely no law regarding the use of scanners.
This is pretty common behavior of private security guards. I was once driving around a government facility, in a government car, while a government employee, making signal measurements to assess a coverage complaint. I was chased down by a private security guard who had been hired to monitor the parking lot. He tried to ask a lot of questions about why I was there, what was I doing, and told not to loiter or the police would be called.

I gave him my card and told him to make sure the police spelled my name correctly. We ended up having a half decent conversation about radios, but he sure tried to come off a bit heavy handed at first. I'll bet he's a member here...
 

ecps92

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You might want to check out
http://www.scancapecod.us/wiki/index.php/Common_Standard_Department_Store_Channels
which has lots of the Common [Nationwide] channels plans for the various stores.



KB1JHU said:
It looks like it could be cleaned up a bit. Maybe just separate each shopping center into a different table. I have been trying to get freqs for the stores at the CT Post but I will hold off on posting anything until I have better confirmation on who is using what. A lot of the stores use FRS/GMRS. I think some others have JobCom or Moto XTN's on the common busniess freqs without licenses.
 

ecps92

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Problem I found with that was there are some malls [named] in towns then there are those little strip malls or the Box stores in a town w/o a Mall that have frequencies.

Let me see what we can do, maybe break it down by City/Town with an index at the top by town...thanks for all the input


KB1JHU said:
It looks like it could be cleaned up a bit. Maybe just separate each shopping center into a different table. I have been trying to get freqs for the stores at the CT Post but I will hold off on posting anything until I have better confirmation on who is using what. A lot of the stores use FRS/GMRS. I think some others have JobCom or Moto XTN's on the common busniess freqs without licenses.
 

Zaratsu

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connscanner said:
Just some additional food-for-thought, one of the security guards saw me in the mall with the scanner and apparently heard himself through it and came over and told me that "storing" frequencies of police or mall security was illegal and that I could listen to it at home but if I used it in public it was illegal and that if a police officer found it in my car I would be arrested. Obviously, that's all B.S., especially since CT has absolutely no law regarding the use of scanners.
I can understand that they would be unhappy with me to not use it in the mall, and if they requested that I not use it while on the premises I would be glad to comply, but spreading false information as they did is crazy.

btw, I can confirm all of KB1JHU's informaion
Hes full of balony. They could kick you off private property for just about anything, but not have you arrested.

Remember. Security Guards/Mall Ninjas are just whackers. They have the authority complex and will say a lot of things that sound legit/legalish, but dont listen to them. The guy probably has a "sqad car" full of goofball scanners, radios, lights and other "first responder" things. In fact he is probably reading the board.:roll:
 

N1SQB

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Maybe I can Help!

Hello All!
Maybe I can shed a little light on some things that have been said here! I worked for Westfield for about 5 years. I have done security duty on both malls when we were in-house employees and worked directly for westfield. First of all, Westfield has always owned both malls since they had the name Trumbull Shopping Park and Ct. Post Mall. Westfield is based in Australia. This was a company that at one time, cared very much about its in house employees and payed them pretty good. Not top dollar but pretty good considering you had full medical and dental plus 401K and profit sharing. This was not to last. They started first with contracting outsiders for their maintainance crew. Pretty much sold them out to an outside company and made people re-aply for their jobs with the new company. We in the security dept. knew our turn would soon come. Most of us moved on to bigger and better things. I went on to the State Judicial Branch, My colleage and friend went on to Hamden police first as an officer and now as the youngest Chief in the Departments' history, Chief Tom Wydra. The security got sold out to Securitas. That didnt work out so they now have another outside company that they hired. I cant think of the name but they have a very sexy Female SGT. working at the Trumbull mall which I go to a lot(for other reasons of cource). The Trumbull Mall Repeater was about 25 watts strong unless it has been replaced. Very clear repeater. Used to be serviced by Comtronics in Stratford. The Milford repeater which is the same frequency and just a PL change, was ok but had its "issues" from time to time. I believe Westfield had the license for it under its own name. The new contract security just uses the same radios on the same repeaters that are owned by Westfield Inc. This Company went from being the best to work for to just nickle and dime pinchers cutting corners just to save a buck or two. We used to get all kinds of training including CPR/First aid,baton training, pepper spray, self defense, laws of arrest, defensive driving, ect....The guys thought of it as a real job with real responsibilities mainly because we were getting paid well to do a good job. We had the respect of both Milford and Trumbull Police. Now? Just a bunch of rent-a-cops that walk around looking the part but arent trained to save themselves let alone someone else in a real crisis. If the crap ever hits the fan and you are in the mall, head for the nearest exit and high tail it home because the security there aint worth a plucked nickle. Just my 5 years worth of experience.

Manny
 

Mudhog13

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Tufts Medical Center Secuity Freq

I have a question in regards to the FCC licensing rules. I have figured out that the frequencies used at the local mall, Westfield Shoppingtown in Trumbull, by security personnel are 464.775 and 469.775. The 469.775 is clearly used to transmit from the mobile units to the dispatch. All communication is broadcast on 464.775. The mall security can be heard on the latter frequency for a several-mile radius around the mall. The same frequencies, with a different CT Code is used at the Westfield Shoppingtown in Milford.

I am wondering why these frequencies do not come up as being registered in the FCC ULS database by any firms in Connecticut that could possibly be a private security firm or any type of holdings company. For comparison, the Trumbull Police frequencies are well documented and include specific licenses for each location of a repeater around the town.

Why is it that there is no record of a license for the mall security? Is it possible they are improperly licensed for their operations?
Tufts Medical Center Security is running on 464.7750.... It's in Chinatown in Boston
 
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