List of HAM radios that tune all narrowband steps

[MTS2000des]

It's a shame that most VHF/UHF ham radios with wideband receivers will become useless in 2013, only a few actually tune ALL of the correct narrowband steps. I found out one older dual band HT, the Kenwood TH-D7AG V 2.0 does 6.25 (and even takes frequencies like 154.8225 just fine). The Kenwood TM-271A also does all narrowband tuning steps and the deviation/RX bandwidth can be narrowed as well on a per channel basis.

Anyone have experience with the replacement for it (The TH-D72A)? The spec sheet and manual don't specify what tuning steps are supported. Any other models that have been verified to RX properly on the newer narrowband channel steps? Seems like Kenwood is the only manufacturer that cares about this. All the Yaesu rigs I have (an FT-8800R, VX-6R, FT-60) do NOT do 6.25 and won't accept anything but older steps. No firmware upgrades either. What a bummer that we won't be able to enjoy the extra RX capability in a couple of years.

 

[nd5y]

They won't become useless because almost nobody in the US uses 2.5 kHz deviation or 2.5, 6.25 or 7.5 kHz channels steps on ham radio.
The IF filter bandwidth is so wide in low quality receivers like ham rigs and scanners that being up to 5 kHz off frequency makes no difference.
In the past 15 years or so since the 7.5kHz splinter channels started showing up on high band I have had IC-2710H, IC-2720H, FT-7800R, FT-50R, VX-6R, not to mention several older scanner that did not have the proper VHF channel spacing or narrowband receive mode and they all receive narrowband signals just fine. You just have less audio.

 

[MTS2000des]

the problem is listening to a narrowband signal off frequency even if by 2.5KHz can become aggravating, especially if the receiver is wideband only. the major ham "big three" need to get on the ball. Most of the cheap plastic toilet rigs from China tune all the narrowband steps and do 2.5KHz deviation. If a 39 dollar plastic turd can do it why not these $400 and up dual banders?

 

[AK9R]

The Kenwood TH-D72A does 5.0, 6.25, 10.0, 12.5, 15.0, 20.0, 25.0, 30.0, 50.0, and 100.0 kHz tuning steps. However, if you try to enter 154.8225 with a step size of 6.25 kHz, it jumps to 154.81875. The newer Kenwoods force you to a frequency that matches the raster for the given step size. The new narrowband VHF channels are on a 7.5 kHz raster, not 6.25 kHz, so a step size of 2.5 or 7.5 kHz is required to tune them.

But why do the Big Three need to "get on the ball"? What ball? They are building amateur radios for the amateur radio market, not the scanner or commercial radio market.

 

[gewecke]

It's a shame that most VHF/UHF ham radios with wideband receivers will become useless in 2013, only a few actually tune ALL of the correct narrowband steps. I found out one older dual band HT, the Kenwood TH-D7AG V 2.0 does 6.25 (and even takes frequencies like 154.8225 just fine). The Kenwood TM-271A also does all narrowband tuning steps and the deviation/RX bandwidth can be narrowed as well on a per channel basis.

Anyone have experience with the replacement for it (The TH-D72A)? The spec sheet and manual don't specify what tuning steps are supported. Any other models that have been verified to RX properly on the newer narrowband channel steps? Seems like Kenwood is the only manufacturer that cares about this. All the Yaesu rigs I have (an FT-8800R, VX-6R, FT-60) do NOT do 6.25 and won't accept anything but older steps. No firmware upgrades either. What a bummer that we won't be able to enjoy the extra RX capability in a couple of years.

This really only concerns hams or people who may want to use a ham rig to transmit outside of the authorized ham bands. This is not a problem for us who tend to stay where we belong.


73,
n9zas

 

[N8IAA]

This really only concerns hams or people who may want to use a ham rig to transmit outside of the authorized ham bands. This is not a problem for us who tend to stay where we belong.


73,
n9zas

Trust me. If MTS2000des needs to transmit out of band, he does it on commercial gear. Not on his ham rigs.
Larry

 

[MTS2000des]

This really only concerns hams or people who may want to use a ham rig to transmit outside of the authorized ham bands. This is not a problem for us who tend to stay where we belong.


73,
n9zas

who said I was transmitting out of band? take a look at my QRZ profile (N4XTS), I have plenty of part 90 radios for that purpose.

 

[SCPD]

Yaesu FT-270R

The FT-270R doesn't have the 6.25khz steps but I don't care about that either. It does have the 2.5khz TX deviation -- which helps give the microphone better punch, imho.

Slightly OT:

I do have that "quiet" tx audio issue (even with the deviation change) when speaking an inch or two away from the radio. But if I speak right at the speaker/microphone hole then it's fine. I'm debating about do the membrane mod but it's not really that big of deal. I do hate having to put my mouth on the radio. I was always taught to speak 1-2" from the microphone -- hard to break that habit.

 

[gewecke]

who said I was transmitting out of band? take a look at my QRZ profile (N4XTS), I have plenty of part 90 radios for that purpose.

I did look at your profile,and I'm sure you would never do anything like that!


73,
n9zas

 

[N4JKD]

The Kenwood TH-K2AT is a 2 meter HT and it does narrow band. I don't see the government making ham do this right now, because there are so many older radios out there now that work as well as new, and with the economy, not everyone can afford the new ones. The norm soon, will be D-STAR, but analog will still be there as a backup

 

[lbfd09]

The Kenwood TH-K2AT is a 2 meter HT and it does narrow band. I don't see the government making ham do this right now, because there are so many older radios out there now that work as well as new, and with the economy, not everyone can afford the new ones. The norm soon, will be D-STAR, but analog will still be there as a backup

First off - it's not the government's job to tell us hams that emission format we can use on VHF and UHF. It's WE hams who need to tell them radio makers what transmission/emission format we will use. Locally we have SSB and multiple forms of digital formats that are used.

D-Star the norm in the future? Maybe in 30 or more years, but I think P25, Mototurbo, and some of the other VoIP types of emissions may surprise you.

 

[ad5kl]

They need to get on the ball if...

The ham radio manufacturers need to get on the ball if they want to continue selling radios with the added benefit of extended receive. I liked having my Yaesu FT-1900 in the car since it allowed me to scan the ham & public service bands with one rig. Don't need a separate scanner - for VHF anyway (where most of my listening is.)

I'll have to buy a scanner after 2013 if the Yaesu is still going as it should be - but only if can't be flashed with a firmware upgrade.

 

[rfradioconsult]

Narrowbanding does not automatically mean your existing favorite Part 90 entity will be changing frequency. The new narrowband channels will be assigned between the present 30/15 KHz assignments. So unless an agency files for a new assignment all that will happen is their present assigned frequency will remain and the allowable bandwidth will be reduced from 5 KHz to 2.5 KHz deviation.

 

[zz0468]

...The norm soon, will be D-STAR, but analog will still be there as a backup

Soon? I doubt it.

People on these forums tend to forget that the amateur service is not subject to the same rulings and standards that Part 90 users are. D-STAR is a great format to experiment with, for those so inclined, but there is no mandate for amateur radio to go digital OR narrow band.

Many repeater systems are designed and built with specific technical goals in mind, and one of those goals is sometimes superior audio quality. With current technology, that's simply not available with ANY of the digital formats, or narrow banded radios. Systems operated with the goal of superior audio quality won't be changing formats any time soon.

 

[N1BHH]

It will be a long time, maybe never when the FCC tells hams they have to operate on 12.5 kilohertz or lesser steps. What so many of you too new hams is we' don't get governed by the FCC to channels, except 60 meters and that's international. This an experimenting hobby, look at what AM hams have done by saying no to the FCC on bandwidth, although good amateur radio practice is to limit your bandwidth to that which does not cause unwanted interference to others. There are more modes of operation than FM in ham radio.

 

[Castle7]

Out Of Band RX

The "Big Three" should realize that many of us are involved with ARES/RACES and use our rigs to monitor (receive) emergency traffic. I tried the IC-2720 and it will not accept all the splinter channels used in the mutual aid systems, in the narrow band RX. Yes, it looks like a scanner will have to be purchased this Christmas, to be able to listen to the local emergency management and the local fire department, which we have signed agreements to serve with our amateur radios, in times of need.
I don't care about out of band mods to TX on a public safety system, as that is not what we are there for. I do care about being able to monitor and receive the narrow band transmissions to better prepare for the types of emergencies that we are activated for.
73

 

[W6KRU]

There is more involved in narrow band reception than just the ability to dial up a splinter frequency.

If the narrow deviation is not compensated for, the audio is going to be low. One of my scanners has an audio boost option to bandaid this problem.

If the IF filter allows adjacent channels through, the audio is going to be unintelligible.One of my scanners does not handle this situation well and I can receive audio from channels that are 2 steps away from the true frequency.

 

[gewecke]

They won't become useless because almost nobody in the US uses 2.5 kHz deviation or 2.5, 6.25 or 7.5 kHz channels steps on ham radio.
The IF filter bandwidth is so wide in low quality receivers like ham rigs and scanners that being up to 5 kHz off frequency makes no difference.
In the past 15 years or so since the 7.5kHz splinter channels started showing up on high band I have had IC-2710H, IC-2720H, FT-7800R, FT-50R, VX-6R, not to mention several older scanner that did not have the proper VHF channel spacing or narrowband receive mode and they all receive narrowband signals just fine. You just have less audio.

Just a note here, if someone wanted to tune the FRS channels then they do use 2.5khz dev. Not that anyone would do that. :wink:

73,
n9zas

 

[olderookie]

Just to beat a dead horse......

I can't listen to my PD dispatch because it is a narrow band freq.

if I need to transmit I could then pick up my HT-750

it is nice to just scann it along with the other things I want to listen to.

I guess everyone thought it would not happen and here we are it is done. just wait until they start on the amateur service. as far as saying no to the FCC let me know how that works out???

 

[zz0468]

Just to beat a dead horse......

Ashes to ashes, etc. This horse is more than dead.

I can't listen to my PD dispatch because it is a narrow band freq.

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. Narrow band radios are easily available. Wideband radios will demodulate narrow band transmissions.

if I need to transmit I could then pick up my HT-750

Why would you need to transmit?

it is nice to just scann it along with the other things I want to listen to.

Yes, yes it is nice to be able to scan. (???)

I guess everyone thought it would not happen and here we are it is done. just wait until they start on the amateur service. as far as saying no to the FCC let me know how that works out???

Everyone said WHAT would happen? The amateur service is not being mandated to narrow band. So far as my long range crystal ball is concerned, the FCC will NOT be telling the amateur radio service to narrow band. Now now, not in the foreseeable future.

Your local frequency coordinating committee might decide to mandate narrow banding, but that would be the local frequency coordinating committee doing that, not the FCC. And that hasn't happened yet, either.