LMCC letter to FCC about CCR problem.

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Any brand name you cannot pronounce.
(snip)

"Any radio with a built in flashlight."

That is a deal killer right there!

"Any radio sold as commercial/public safety that also receives FM broadcast."

Ditto on that!
(snip)
"Any radio that an amateur radio operator owns 6 or more of the same model."

Surely you don't mean to speak ill of my closet full of Motorola Systems Sabers?

(snip)

See my notes above!!!!

 

[mmckenna]

I've heard some very creative pronunciations of Yaesu, so you might be ruling them out. Also, seems that half the ham population can't spell Yaesu even when it's printed on the radio right in front of them.

Yaesu, I prefer the pronunciation "Vertex".
I hear what you are saying, though. Yaesu makes good -amateur- stuff. I used to have several Yaesu radios, in fact my very first amateur radio was an FT-470.

I did run across someone at work that was using a Yaesu on a Part 90 system. Opened up for MARS/CAP, but wouldn't do real 2.5KHz deviation. That, along with a couple of Beofengs made for a good solid headache.

At least one Chinese manufacturer of radios, particularly DMR radios, is actively soliciting positive reviews on Amazon. The deal is that if you buy the radio through Amazon and pay with Paypal and then post a positive review, the manufacturer/importer will refund all or part of your purchase price with a Paypal credit.

Not surprising. That and Russian meddling in elections and social media sort of goes hand in hand. Not sure how many places I can find fault/cause for that. Gullible American consumers, gullible American social media users, Companies that have zero integrity, Companies that will do anything to make a sale.

 

[mmckenna]

(snip)
"Any radio that an amateur radio operator owns 6 or more of the same model."

Surely you don't mean to speak ill of my closet full of Motorola Systems Sabers?

(snip)

See my notes above!!!!

Yeah, good point. I had a bunch of HT1000's for a while, so I'm guilty.

What makes me cringe is the guys who buy the CCR's in bulk to "hand out" to others, or in case theirs crap out. Surfing e-Bay you can find deals where they are selling 40-50 CCR's in one lot where the individual price drops below $25 each. Not sure why that alone isn't a warning. Considering a decent radio costs me somewhere north of $500 for the most basic, before battery, charger, etc. Finding someone who thinks a $25 radio is "good enough" and that I'm obviously trying to scam them into buying an expensive radio is discouraging.

Combating the ignorance is hard enough without the radio prices being so incredibly low.

Bigger headache is when they don't work right and I get told "Your system is junk" and I have to find a tactful way to explain to the end user why a $25 radio is the issue.

 

[mmckenna]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20X-Baofen...663253?hash=item25d1dc4355:g:khYAAOSw32lYy7FN

20 CCR's for $9.45 each. What could possibly be wrong with those radios. I'm sure they are "just as good" as those expensive radios….

I have radios that the belt clip costs more than that, and I'm sure you guys do, too.

 

[mmckenna]

Some more…

-Any radio that has a camouflage housing. ("Green" radios are OK)
-Any hand held commercial/public safety radio with a power output claim higher than 6 watts.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Any radio where CHIRP is the only other software and it works better than OEM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mmckenna]

Any radio where CHIRP is the preferred software over OEM OR RR Systems.

I was thinking of that one, too.
I think the very fact that you need to use a third party software to make the radio actually work is a pretty good sign that it's crap and the user is probably in way over their head.

 

[kayn1n32008]

I was thinking of that one, too.

I think the very fact that you need to use a third party software to make the radio actually work is a pretty good sign that it's crap and the user is probably in way over their head.

Totally agree.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KevinC]

Any radio with a "sensibility" spec???

 

[cmdrwill]

Not to mention the phony and false certification applications.

 

[Thunderknight]

Any radio with a "sensibility" spec???

Of course it's sensibility, how else would you measure Sinda?

 

[mmckenna]

Of course it's sensibility, how else would you measure Sinda?

Isn't a "sinda" those things that are left over after a fire? Seems appropriate.

 

[KK4JUG]

Trying to do something about the CCRs may be too little, too late.

RE: mmckenna's list for "no buy." I have to agree with it.

 

[alcahuete]

*Yawn*

This will be about as effective as the ban on export CB radios. The manufacturers are outside of the country, so you can't fine them. You can fine some of the importers, but that's not going to do anything. People will still go to Amazon and eBay and just order directly from China.

The FCC isn't going to go after individuals, unless they're interfering with public safety or such. I'm sure there are already hundreds of thousands (if not millions) in use here in the US, and nothing is going to change that.

 

[mmckenna]

This will be about as effective as the ban on export CB radios. The manufacturers are outside of the country, so you can't fine them. You can fine some of the importers, but that's not going to do anything. People will still go to Amazon and eBay and just order directly from China.

Very true, but there's still some good comedy in pointing and laughing at the radios. While some seems to be impressed by them, most of us know what they are and avoid them.

If someone needs a scanner, then get a scanner.
If someone needs an amateur radio, then get an amateur radio.
If someone needs an FRS, GMRS or MURS radio, then get an FRS, GMRS or MURS radio.

If someone thinks that they are going to save the day by transmitting on public safety frequencies, they need to be evaluated.

If an amateur radio operator thinks that their passing grade on a 35 question multiple choice test gives them unrestricted access to every single piece of spectrum from DC to Daylight, they need to be corrected.

If some whacker wants to transmit on public safety frequencies, then they need to be evaluated.

Nothing is going to stop illegal use. A $9.45 radio just makes it easier. Anyone can go on e-Bay, buy a used HT-1000 for a few bucks more, buy a cheap programming cable and download RSS off the Russian websites and have at it almost as easily (and with likely better results).

The issue is that the radios have serious issues meeting specifications. There is zero pressure on the Chinese companies to do anything about that. The FCC has effectively neutered themselves when it comes to enforcing their own rules. The FCC opened this door when they allowed companies to do their own type certifications. The people of the US need to call them on this and make them fix it. After all, they are supposed to be working for us.

The other issue is education. Joe Public going on line looking for a simple walkie talkie to talk to his kids will jump at a low end radio if the price is good. Joe don't care about type certification, licensing, etc. Those things mean nothing to Joe because he's used to being a consumer and purchasing whatever the advertisements tell him to.

As for there being thousands or millions of these radios in the USA already, that isn't much of a concern. They'll either fail soon or the batteries will crap out and they won't be able to get replacements. After all, that low price comes at a cost. Cheap components, lack of support, etc. Eventually these radios will disappear due to a rapid attrition cycle.

But, I agree with you. The FCC isn't going to do anything unless there is a big wad of money involved. The current Chairman will make sure of that.

 

[KK4JUG]

Yeah, it's gonna be tough when you can buy a name-brand pair of radios for $40 and all you can do is talk on them. For less than half that, you can get a pair of CCRs that have flashlights, FM, can "scan." (or so they think) and you can talk on them, too.

For the average consumer, that's a no-brainer.

 

[alcahuete]

@KK4JUG yep, completely agree.

The specifications issues don't mean anything to the consumer, unfortunately. They do to you and me and everyone else reading this, but to the average person, it's simply a money issue.

I bought a pair of 888s a couple years ago just to fool around with them (for less than $10 each), and they sound and work just fine. Do they sound as good as some of my commercial Motorola gear? Of course not. Are they to any sort of spec.? I highly doubt it, though I haven't thrown them on a monitor.

But to the average consumer, they sound and work just as well as any of the bubble pack radios. In fact, I get as good range out of those than I do a pack of Motorola bubble pack FRS/GMRS radios.

And that's the issue. Consumers don't know that these sound or work worse than professional Motorola public safety gear, because they are never going to use public safety gear. They aren't going to buy programming software, cables, etc. As long as these radios work, that's all they care about.

Going to be a tough battle for sure.

 

[AK9R]

This will be about as effective as the ban on export CB radios.

If you watch the FCC enforcement actions, you occasionally see them going after a truck stop, or a good ol' boy CB shop that's probably located behind a truck stop, for selling export radios or CB amplifiers. It's rare, but it does happen.

The comments about the futility of closing the barn door after the horses have left the barn are the real issue. Sadly, it's too late to do anything about CCRs in the U.S.

 

[ai8o]

CCR Tech Spec enforcement

You can watch for the FCC enforcement actions.

Do the words cold day in hell have any resonance for you?

The FCC commissioners don't know, don't care.
All they hear is what the lobbyists say.

I n fact the Head of the FCC is a lobbyist.

Ever since the Al Gore inspired firing of the technical people, and the gutting of the Enforcement Buro and the replacemnet of techs with lawyers, there has been NO effective enforcement.

The privatization of compliance certification testing allowed all sorts of poorly designed radios to be passed thru testing and "certified"

The FCC has dropped the ball so often, they don't even know what game they are playing.

 

[Chronic]

Reading between the lines , this is just about the big 3 loseing a lot of money and sales to the CCR's .
most of the big 3 are made in china or japan so why can they not make a lower cost radio.
Not saying I agree, just calling it as I see it .