Los Angeles County area - ????

[zerg901]

Looking at the LA County page in the database brought a few questions to mind.

1. Are BOLO (be on the lookout) broadcasts heard on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels?

2. Who is the control point on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels? Are the channels always monitored by a dispatcher?

3, Is any selective alerting used on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels?

4. What is LA Sheriff Simplex 1 473.7875 usually used for? (I saw one mention of parade ops on Catalina Island)

5. Are County Fire dispatchers heard on 152.15R 152.24R 152.54R 152.57R 152.78R? What are these channels usually used for? Do they have countywide coverage?

6. Does County Fire have base stations on 153.83 PL 151.4?

7. Do dispatchers have access to 161.475 161.505R 161.525R? What are these channels usually used for?

8. Is there a PL for 36.50 on the LARTCS?

9. What does LAFD typically use Ops 1 + Ops 2 + Ops 3 for?

10. What does LAFD typically use Ch5 and Ch9 for? "Alternate control" - what does that mean in practice?

11. Does LAFD have a base station on 119.975? Who controls it?

12. Does LAPD or LASO have any encrypted channels?

13. In Kagel Canyon and the Chatsworth county island, who provides ambulance service? What is a typical full first alarm in those areas? Do the police and fire units have multiple shared radios? (I can see that Chatsworth county island is under Malibu Station - as is Oat Mtn area)

14. Is Small Cities Mutual Aid 484.2125 used much? Who uses it? For what?

15. Is CLEMARS9 484.2375R used much? Who uses it? Who controls it?

Peter Sz

 

[K6CDO]

Looking at the LA County page in the database brought a few questions to mind.

1. Are BOLO (be on the lookout) broadcasts heard on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels?

2. Who is the control point on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels? Are the channels always monitored by a dispatcher?

3, Is any selective alerting used on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels?

4. What is LA Sheriff Simplex 1 473.7875 usually used for? (I saw one mention of parade ops on Catalina Island)

5. Are County Fire dispatchers heard on 152.15R 152.24R 152.54R 152.57R 152.78R? What are these channels usually used for? Do they have countywide coverage?

6. Does County Fire have base stations on 153.83 PL 151.4?

7. Do dispatchers have access to 161.475 161.505R 161.525R? What are these channels usually used for?

8. Is there a PL for 36.50 on the LARTCS?

9. What does LAFD typically use Ops 1 + Ops 2 + Ops 3 for?

10. What does LAFD typically use Ch5 and Ch9 for? "Alternate control" - what does that mean in practice?

11. Does LAFD have a base station on 119.975? Who controls it?

12. Does LAPD or LASO have any encrypted channels?

13. In Kagel Canyon and the Chatsworth county island, who provides ambulance service? What is a typical full first alarm in those areas? Do the police and fire units have multiple shared radios? (I can see that Chatsworth county island is under Malibu Station - as is Oat Mtn area)

14. Is Small Cities Mutual Aid 484.2125 used much? Who uses it? For what?

15. Is CLEMARS9 484.2375R used much? Who uses it? Who controls it?

Peter Sz

Well, let me take a stab at some:

2. Sheriff's Communications Center. Yes.

3. No.

8. No, 36.50 uses a military radio.

10. LAFD 5 and 9 are used for major events (such as a wildland fire dispatch) as those incidents have a history of being radio-use intensive.

12. Yes.

14. Small Cities MA has 3 repeaters around the county. It was set up for the small cities in T-Band (not LAPD or LASD) who had systems that covered only their cities, for use by field units when outside of their coverage area (e.g: downtown at Courts or in another city on an investigation). Functionally, overtaken bu ICIS.

15. CLEMARS 9 is 868.5125R (CLEMARS 8 is direct)
CLEMARS 22 is 484.2375 is simplex. It was set up to allow the all T-band law (but mostly the smaller agencies) to have a common tactical for on-scene coordination. CalEMA controls it.
The other half of the pair (487.2375) is used as a fireground tactical.

 

[zerg901]

K6CD0 - thanks for the reply. I got inspired and drew up a list of police UHF mutual aid channels in LA County.

https://sites.google.com/site/calif...radio-systems/police-mutual-aid-radio-systems

The question at the back of my mind was - If I was a police officer at a major incident somewhere in LA County, approx how many channels do I really have access to?

 

[K6CDO]

The question at the back of my mind was - If I was a police officer at a major incident somewhere in LA County, approx how many channels do I really have access to?

Depends on what agency you are with. Some agencies use XTS-5000 portables (up to 1000 modes), some use 16 or 32 mode radios.

 

[jrholm]

Looking at the LA County page in the database brought a few questions to mind.

1. Are BOLO (be on the lookout) broadcasts heard on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels?

2. Who is the control point on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels? Are the channels always monitored by a dispatcher?

3, Is any selective alerting used on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels?

4. What is LA Sheriff Simplex 1 473.7875 usually used for? (I saw one mention of parade ops on Catalina Island)

5. Are County Fire dispatchers heard on 152.15R 152.24R 152.54R 152.57R 152.78R? What are these channels usually used for? Do they have countywide coverage?

6. Does County Fire have base stations on 153.83 PL 151.4?

7. Do dispatchers have access to 161.475 161.505R 161.525R? What are these channels usually used for?

8. Is there a PL for 36.50 on the LARTCS?

9. What does LAFD typically use Ops 1 + Ops 2 + Ops 3 for?

10. What does LAFD typically use Ch5 and Ch9 for? "Alternate control" - what does that mean in practice?

11. Does LAFD have a base station on 119.975? Who controls it?

12. Does LAPD or LASO have any encrypted channels?

13. In Kagel Canyon and the Chatsworth county island, who provides ambulance service? What is a typical full first alarm in those areas? Do the police and fire units have multiple shared radios? (I can see that Chatsworth county island is under Malibu Station - as is Oat Mtn area)

14. Is Small Cities Mutual Aid 484.2125 used much? Who uses it? For what?

15. Is CLEMARS9 484.2375R used much? Who uses it? Who controls it?

Peter Sz

I will address the LASD questions

1. No
2.SCC is the control point, they may not be used without prior authorization from SCC. They are not routinely monitored.
3. No
4. Simplex is for small tactical operations that can be covered "line of sight"
12. Yes
13. Sheriffs and County Fire radios are both programmed with each others frequencies.

 

[Mikerh91]

Looking at the LA County page in the database brought a few questions to mind.

1. Are BOLO (be on the lookout) broadcasts heard on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels?

2. Who is the control point on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels? Are the channels always monitored by a dispatcher?

3, Is any selective alerting used on the Sheriff Mutual Aid channels?

4. What is LA Sheriff Simplex 1 473.7875 usually used for? (I saw one mention of parade ops on Catalina Island)

5. Are County Fire dispatchers heard on 152.15R 152.24R 152.54R 152.57R 152.78R? What are these channels usually used for? Do they have countywide coverage?

6. Does County Fire have base stations on 153.83 PL 151.4?

7. Do dispatchers have access to 161.475 161.505R 161.525R? What are these channels usually used for?

8. Is there a PL for 36.50 on the LARTCS?

9. What does LAFD typically use Ops 1 + Ops 2 + Ops 3 for?

10. What does LAFD typically use Ch5 and Ch9 for? "Alternate control" - what does that mean in practice?

11. Does LAFD have a base station on 119.975? Who controls it?

12. Does LAPD or LASO have any encrypted channels?

13. In Kagel Canyon and the Chatsworth county island, who provides ambulance service? What is a typical full first alarm in those areas? Do the police and fire units have multiple shared radios? (I can see that Chatsworth county island is under Malibu Station - as is Oat Mtn area)

14. Is Small Cities Mutual Aid 484.2125 used much? Who uses it? For what?

15. Is CLEMARS9 484.2375R used much? Who uses it? Who controls it?

Peter Sz

9. From what section are you quoting. Ops 1 Ops 2 Ops 3, etc, the LAFD (Los Angeles City Fire Department) does not have any ops channels.

10. LAFD Channel 5 is used for brush fire responses and LAFD Channel 9 is for Structure Fires

11. 119.975 is the LAFD Air Ops company channel. Air Ops at FS 114 uses this to contact the helicopters routinely.

13. In the county areas of responsibility where they send an engine and a squad, a PVT ambulance is dispatched. LACoFD and LAFD do have mutual and automatic aid for ambulances.

 

[zerg901]

Thanks for all the replies.

1. I have seen mention of 4 repeaters for the SCMA channel - 4 diffferent input PLs apparently - IIRC the repeaters are labeled - E - W - C - S?

2. I was surprised to see that there is maybe only 1 repeater on 460.025 in LA County.

3. Re LAFD Ops 1 2 3 - whatever the first 3 channels are in the Radio Ref listing - they had been allocated as 1 per Division - but I think they cut back to 2 Divisions now - I always assumed these channels were used for non emergency messages - but maybe they are used for minor fire incidents also? (like water leaks or elevator rescues?)

4. LASO Emergency Trigger Channel might have 17 or 18 different repeater sites. The freq is listed in the FCC ULS as having 3 different repeater sites on Catalina Island - and 2 different repeaters in Palos Verdes Estates - ??????

5. Re LAFD 5 and 9 - I will probably remember these as "large incident command channels" or "spare command channels" - although I imagine that they can be used as Tactical channels if needed also.

 

[Radio_Lady]

Re: LAFD Channels 5 & 9

5. Re LAFD 5 and 9 - I will probably remember these as "large incident command channels" or "spare command channels" - although I imagine that they can be used as Tactical channels if needed also.

To expand on Mikerh91's reply, LAFD channels 9 and 5 were redesignated last year as the Alternate Control Channels, that is, for contact between incident commanders and OCD (now "Metro") for structure fires and for brush fire or river rescue incident types, respectively. When incidents are assigned to one of those channels, a Firefighter/dispatcher at Metro is assigned to monitor that frequency and handle requests and reports from the IC, taking that load off the Ch 7 and Ch 8 dispatchers. They aren't typically used as tactical channels unless, perhaps, more tacs are needed but nothing else is available.

Brian Humphrey explained it on several yahoogroups including at socalscan/message/66379 by saying, in part,

"- LAFD Radio Channel 9 when available for use, will now serve as the primary
control channel (contact between field & dispatch) for "Structure Fire"
(type only) incidents anywhere in the City. As many as three structure fires
may be coordinated simultaneously on this radio frequency before another
radio channel is assigned.

- LAFD Radio Channel 5 when available for use, will now serve as the primary
control channel (contact between field & dispatch) assigned to "Brush Fire"
(type only) and "River Rescue" (type only) incidents anywhere in the City."​

Also as noted in the Yahoogroups posts, the frequency listing page on LAFD's website hasn't been updated since 7/30/2010, so those uses aren't reflected there but the correct frequencies and tones are.

 

[Mikerh91]

3. Re LAFD Ops 1 2 3 - whatever the first 3 channels are in the Radio Ref listing - they had been allocated as 1 per Division - but I think they cut back to 2 Divisions now - I always assumed these channels were used for non emergency messages - but maybe they are used for minor fire incidents also? (like water leaks or elevator rescues?)

You are correct that LAFD now has only 2 divisions. However, the first three channels are still used by the only boundaries (Example - the companies that were in old Division 2 still use Channel 2 as their division tactical).

The first three channels are normally used for drilling, staging channel or when messages need to get passed along with out a designated tac channel from metro dispatch.

 

[shawn1899]

There are two known repeaters for 460.025 in la county. One on verdugo and the other on San Pedro hill. The same sites also house the 800 mhz itac repeaters.

sent from my galaxy SIII

 

[Radio_Lady]

Re: LASD Emergency Trigger repeaters

4. LASO Emergency Trigger Channel might have 17 or 18 different repeater sites. The freq is listed in the FCC ULS as having 3 different repeater sites on Catalina Island - and 2 different repeaters in Palos Verdes Estates - ??????

That seems entirely sensible considering the life-and-death purpose of that particular frequency, and the size and terrain of the County. It is comparable to, actually much less dense than the LAPD Trigger frequency's 13-15 licensed repeater sites for an area just about 1/10 the size of the county.

Taken together the several good sites on Catalina Island have overall excellent line-of-sight to the southern 2/3 or so of the county including almost its entire coastline from the Orange County to Ventura County lines, but there are some severe obstructions such as the Palos Verdes Hills , Santa Monica Mountains, and the Puente Hills which the other sites apparently do a good job of filling in. Remember that we're talking about UHF with as little as two watts, and the radio possibly horizontal between the deputy and a suspect both rolling around on the ground.

Trigger is a frequency whose messages "absolutely, positively must get there" the first - and potentially only - time, every time.

 

[Code20Photog]

13. In Kagel Canyon and the Chatsworth county island, who provides ambulance service? What is a typical full first alarm in those areas? Do the police and fire units have multiple shared radios? (I can see that Chatsworth county island is under Malibu Station - as is Oat Mtn area)

When I worked at AMR, this is how the situation worked then, and I believe it's still similar now.

When a call goes out in those areas, LAFD will send an ALS ambulance as part of a mutual aid agreement. Also, a private BLS ambulance, now McCormick, will also be dispatched. If the call is ALS in nature, LAFD will handle the transport, but if it is determined to be BLS, the LAFD unit is canceled and the private BLS unit will transport.

There is a very similar agreement in the Bell Canyon area of Ventura County. LAFD will handle all calls within Bell Canyon, and VCFD will only respond on major incidents like structure fires and brushfires. The closest VCFD unit is nearly 30 minutes away Code 3, so LAFD usually has a handle on the situation by the time Engine 36 arrives.

As for a typical first alarm, it's the same as any other first alarm, but will include a mix of LACoFD and LAFD.

 

[Radio_Lady]

Re: Small Cities Mutual Aid

1. I have seen mention of 4 repeaters for the SCMA channel - 4 diffferent input PLs apparently - IIRC the repeaters are labeled - E - W - C - S?

I don't know about the tones or the E W C S (east, west, central, south?) lettering, but their three sites at Johnstone, Ontario CalEMA, and downtown LA State Building seem to cover the county well, except for the two small and desolate corners in the high desert: Even the leeward side of Catalina Island.

 

[PaulNDaOC]

The LASD E-trig has four transmit sites ( near Palmdale, Wrightwood, Gorman, and Oat Mtn) ,to cover North County. Also transmiters are on Saddle, Verdugo, Baldwin Hills, Downtown, Rio Hondo, Johnstone, Lukins, Mt Dissapointment, Rolling Hills, and Catalina. In addition there are many receive only sites all over the county.

About the only noticeable deadspots are in the Forest and parts of Topanga and Malibu canyons.

 

[Mikerh91]

There is a very similar agreement in the Bell Canyon area of Ventura County. LAFD will handle all calls within Bell Canyon, and VCFD will only respond on major incidents like structure fires and brushfires. The closest VCFD unit is nearly 30 minutes away Code 3, so LAFD usually has a handle on the situation by the time Engine 36 arrives.

As for a typical first alarm, it's the same as any other first alarm, but will include a mix of LACoFD and LAFD.

All calls in Bell Canyon are now exclusively handled by the LAFD, including the overhaul. The only call that they will respond on is brush fires. Of course you will also get a first alarm brush from all three agencies...LA County, LA City and Ventura County there.

 

[SCPD]

Back to the LAFD. Channel 9 has never had any other assignment other than alternate control. Channel 5 was "admin/prevention." Do these functions still use still use Channel 5 or has some other provision been made to provide comms for them?

 

[zerg901]

If LAFD is the primary responder in Bell Canyon area, and they do extensive mutual aid in Kagel Canyon and the Chatsworth county island area, I suppose there is a chance that some LAFD companies have a batch of VHF portable radios (since Ventura County FD and Los Angeles County FD use VHF portables AFAIK). Or does LAFD use their 800 Mhz portables, and dedicate 1 person to maintain face to face coordination with the County IC?

http://goo.gl/maps/JnRXK - this map shows the areas involved - LA County Sta 74 and 75 - first stations on the list

 

[Mikerh91]

If LAFD is the primary responder in Bell Canyon area, and they do extensive mutual aid in Kagel Canyon and the Chatsworth county island area, I suppose there is a chance that some LAFD companies have a batch of VHF portable radios (since Ventura County FD and Los Angeles County FD use VHF portables AFAIK). Or does LAFD use their 800 Mhz portables, and dedicate 1 person to maintain face to face coordination with the County IC?

San Fernando Valley Fire Stations - Google Maps - this map shows the areas involved - LA County Sta 74 and 75 - first stations on the list

LAFD Channel 5 was exclusively used for the Fire Prevention Bureau back in the day, they are now secondary users to that channel. Metro Dispatch handles all of the frequency assignments and if a river rescue or brush fire occurs, that incident will be assigned to channel 5 and the fire prevention will have to wait.

All LAFD fire suppression resources have a one mobile and one portable UHF and VHF radio for when they respond mutual aid with other agencies as well as when resources respond into the city where those agencies do not have 800 Mhz.

 

[SCPD]

LAFD Channel 5 was exclusively used for the Fire Prevention Bureau back in the day, they are now secondary users to that channel. Metro Dispatch handles all of the frequency assignments and if a river rescue or brush fire occurs, that incident will be assigned to channel 5 and the fire prevention will have to wait.

All LAFD fire suppression resources have a one mobile and one portable UHF and VHF radio for when they respond mutual aid with other agencies as well as when resources respond into the city where those agencies do not have 800 Mhz.

Thanks for the answer regarding Channel 5. I suspected this might be the case.

As most of us know, L.A. County Fire carries a VHF handheld with a large channel capacity enabling them to interface with the Angeles National Forest and other agencies using VHF. They use these when they are called out of county for mutual aid as well. In 1988 when I was a crew boss of an Army crew on the fires at Yellowstone National Park some L.A. County captains were supervising Army crews as well and they came with their own VHF radios.

A couple of California fire departments in California have gone back to VHF in the last 5 years or so. Kern County is the most notable. Rural counties all over the west use VHF exclusively, not just for fire departments but for law enforcement as well. These counties have full interoperability already. Snake oil salesmen pedaling 800 MHz trunked systems prey on county sheriffs, police chiefs and county boards and then hope everyone else in a county will have to follow suit to maintain interoperability.

Rural counties in the west have had interoperability since multi-channel and programmable radios have been available. Not only in a single county, but with adjacent counties as well. One factor in this is the lack of large buildings where reflective propagation is needed, especially when they are close together.

Wildland fire has had interoperability on VHF for decades. There doesn't appear to be any change to that being evaluated. The Bendix-King radio, which is simple to field program, dominates the market. I recently purchased the narrow band model and with 16 groups of 14 channels and alphanumeric display it is nice it can be computer programmed as well.

 

[zerg901]

https://sites.google.com/site/calif...-systems/police-mutual-aid-radio-systems/scma

This is where I saw the SCMA info - from 2008 - 4 repeaters - see file added at bottom of page