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Louisville-Jefferson System

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jerk

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#1
Ok, it's time to update this fleet map as there is at least one problem with Block 4
400-0 is not a valid ID for everyday use, it is only used for fleetwide calls.
The range of ID so far goes from 33159-33178 which is 19 radios.
Using that information we have the following options
S1 = 4007-3 4 subfleets, 16 radios
S2 = 400-03 8 subfleets, 64 radios
S3 = 400-03 8 subfleets, 128 radios
S4 = Not valid
S5 = 403-03 4 subfleets, 32 radios
S6 = 401-07 8 subfleets, 32 radios
S7 = 401-03 4 subfleets, 64 radios
S8 = 400-03 4 subfleets, 128 radios
S9 = 400-01 4 subfleets, 256
S10 = 400-01 8 subfleets, 256 radios
S11 = 400-01 16 subfleets, 256 radios
S12 Not valid
S13 Not Valid
S14 Not Valid

So any of the above would work except for S4, S12, 13, 14, & S1 which does not have enough radios. My dilemma is do I goes with the logical choice which would be S11, 10, 9, which equals 400-01 or one like S2, which gives 64 radios, but the ID is not logical in a pattern.

S9, 10, 11 seem to be the best choice. What do you all think.
 
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#2
I think I am totally confused and will wait to see what everyone comes up with. You have too much knowledge on this stuff....LOL...it scares me...
 

jerk

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#3
BigDog-911 said:
I think I am totally confused and will wait to see what everyone comes up with. You have too much knowledge on this stuff....LOL...it scares me...
Oh don't say that, I can't find enough information on it...

All I know for sure is Block 4 is S9, S10, S11, which all return the same TG ID number, the only difference is in the fleet and sub fleet size but there is shortened version of the groups that I am using. All ID's come out the same.

Here's a good site for more info: look for Type I system info
<http://www.wa8pyr.net/scanning.htm>
 

unitcharlie

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#4
newsalan said:
My dilemma is do I goes with the logical choice which would be S11, 10, 9, which equals 400-01 or one like S2, which gives 64 radios, but the ID is not logical in a pattern.
Logical is relative:
KKV82 said:
APPLICANT IS A GOVERNMENTALENTITY PROVIDING PUBLIC SAFETY SERVICES.
(KKV802)

Alan: I think one of Murphy's Laws of Combat comes into play here: "If it is stupid (not logical) but works, then it isn't stupid" . If I had the technical expertise I'd go with it.... if it works then let's try it... take a look at the other system we're trying to conjure... it isn't "normal"....

Get it organized the way you see it working best and I'll post it for you....

Again, thanx for you work on all of this....
collier
 

jerk

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#5
unitcharlie said:
Logical is relative:
(KKV802)

Alan: I think one of Murphy's Laws of Combat comes into play here: "If it is stupid (not logical) but works, then it isn't stupid" . If I had the technical expertise I'd go with it.... if it works then let's try it... take a look at the other system we're trying to conjure... it isn't "normal"....

Get it organized the way you see it working best and I'll post it for you....

Again, thanx for you work on all of this....
collier
I don't disagree, so far really busy, and by the time I get to listen, system has quieted down a lot. But a total re-working is in order. I'm hearing police and fire on the same channel, almost like it's an Operations channel for both. And the police use Sheriff's radios for warrant checks. Block 4 is S11, it's looking like S4 is correct for Block 6 & 7
 

ofd8001

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#6
Man, my head is getting raw from being scratched so much, because it appears something is going on that I haven't a clue about.

If the Louisville-Jefferson system you are talking about is the "old" system, versus the new "MetroSafe" system, something is way out of kilter (and it could be me).

The only public safety agencies (police, fire or EMS) that are on the "old" system, as far as I know, are the Louisville International Airport public safety folks (and that's law enforcement and fire with no EMS). The only other people using it are Metro Parks, some public works, and Inspections, Permits and Licensing (IP&L). If I'm right, the "old" system doesn't have as many users today as it did 10 years ago. The old "county" public works elements left it, as did the coroner folks, and went on their new UHF system. I don't even listen to that system as it is so little used.

If you heard this around Derby time, then all bets are off as far as who is using what. The might be some Moto-bridging going on to marry-up channels for some Derby events, and the patching taking place could explain some of that.

If you compare the RRDB entries for both the Louisville-Jefferson system with the MetroSafe system, you will see there are some frequencies listed on both. For example, 860.46250 is shown as a frequency in the Louisville-Jefferson system (the "old" system), but it is also shown as the primary control frequency for MetroSafe.

I know once upon a time ago, they took some of the 800 MhZ frequencies from the "old" system (since there weren't as many users) and put those frequencies with the MetroSafe system.

I don't know if this is technically possible (I don't know all the technical nuances of trunking), but I could see the following happening. A guy programs all of the Louisville-Jefferson (the "old" one) system into his scanner, including those frequencies that were "transferred" to the MetroSafe system. Then, as he's merrily scanning away, he hears something on what he thinks is the Louisville-Jefferson (the "old" one) system, but it's really something on MetroSafe that happened to be used during Derby festivities because of Moto-bridging (patching). I guess what would really be the telling thing is that if P25 was displayed when something was heard, which the old system ain't.

I did minimal scanner listening this Derby time but I know they used a couple of MetroSafe talkgroups for command and control purposes. I think they also used the VHF fire mutual aid channel a time or two.

But, I could be way out in left field on this.
 
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unitcharlie

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#7
I monitored SDF Public Safety on a couple of talk groups, including an Alert 2 with an aircraft landing with faulty gear indication.... there were a few with what sounded like baggage handlers and a couple more with ramp crew... then the animal control folks had at least one talk group.... I just haven't had the time yet to go thru my notes.... I did force each talk group to go to it's control channel (on the PRO 96 press manual) to confirm which system it was on--Thursday night I didn't hear a peep out of MetroSafe but couldn't keep up with Churchill's RCS 800 meg system... the old system wasn't really busy, but was active enough.... MetroSafe did their thing Friday morning when they did the all call on talk group 00001.... one of the things Alan is trying to do is get a working list of freqs... the way it looks in ULS, there are a number of licenses that comprise the new and old systems--the control channels shown in the data base are part of WPPA787 and WPPF796while the bulk of the freqs is listed as KKV802.... there are some errors in the data base that need attention as well....
 

jerk

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#8
ofd8001 said:
Man, my head is getting raw from being scratched so much, because it appears something is going on that I haven't a clue about.

If the Louisville-Jefferson system you are talking about is the "old" system, versus the new "MetroSafe" system, something is way out of kilter (and it could be me).

The only public safety agencies (police, fire or EMS) that are on the "old" system, as far as I know, are the Louisville International Airport public safety folks (and that's law enforcement and fire with no EMS). The only other people using it are Metro Parks, some public works, and Inspections, Permits and Licensing (IP&L). If I'm right, the "old" system doesn't have as many users today as it did 10 years ago. The old "county" public works elements left it, as did the coroner folks, and went on their new UHF system. I don't even listen to that system as it is so little used.

If you heard this around Derby time, then all bets are off as far as who is using what. The might be some Moto-bridging going on to marry-up channels for some Derby events, and the patching taking place could explain some of that.

If you compare the RRDB entries for both the Louisville-Jefferson system with the MetroSafe system, you will see there are some frequencies listed on both. For example, 860.46250 is shown as a frequency in the Louisville-Jefferson system (the "old" system), but it is also shown as the primary control frequency for MetroSafe.

I know once upon a time ago, they took some of the 800 MhZ frequencies from the "old" system (since there weren't as many users) and put those frequencies with the MetroSafe system.

I don't know if this is technically possible (I don't know all the technical nuances of trunking), but I could see the following happening. A guy programs all of the Louisville-Jefferson (the "old" one) system into his scanner, including those frequencies that were "transferred" to the MetroSafe system. Then, as he's merrily scanning away, he hears something on what he thinks is the Louisville-Jefferson (the "old" one) system, but it's really something on MetroSafe that happened to be used during Derby festivities because of Moto-bridging (patching). I guess what would really be the telling thing is that if P25 was displayed when something was heard, which the old system ain't.

I did minimal scanner listening this Derby time but I know they used a couple of MetroSafe talkgroups for command and control purposes. I think they also used the VHF fire mutual aid channel a time or two.

But, I could be way out in left field on this.
No you're right; we need to come up with a better designation between the two. The old Type I system and the new digital which is still testing.

The digital system was active for derby with 0001 and 0003 being used. (That’s all I heard, could have been more) The old system has two digital TG’s listed, but they belong with the new digital system. So yes it is confusing. And I will submit an update to the database, the old has a fleet map change and ID change, and then the “new” digital ID for Digital Metro.

I would vote for calling the old system old metro, and the new one "Metro digital" Now as I understand, it is only being used for special events, "bridging" TG’s for testing and large events, and finally just mostly exists for "testing" until they get money and radio units purchased.

And one guess is they used the digital system to start getting people (police & fire) acclimated to the up and coming system. In other words, limited use and limited function, because that's all it will handle and they don't have enough radios yet, but the word of mouth will spread and build some anticipation towards it. Something along the lines of “Yes I used it at Derby and we could hear everybody loud and clear..." But that's my guess/opinion.

And I also don’t know, will they migrate everybody over for the old one to the new one, or will they coexist one public safety and public service. I am currently listening to the old system to update it, but have limited time, but the fleet map is definitely wrong and needs to be fixed.
 

ofd8001

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#9
My recommendation is to refer to the new system as "MetroSafe P25 System" and the other one as the "Louisville Local Government Analog system".

I'd discourage any great amount of work done on researching the old system. Based on what I've seen most everyone now on the old system will go on the new system, except for the airport (I haven't seen anything for them).
 

unitcharlie

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#10
I was going to leave the MetroSafe moniker as it is.... in order to reduce confusion because that will be the system everyone wants to monitor in a few months.... I heard a rumor last year that some of the agencies that "don't really need" (I hate it when groups are pigeon-holed as to relative need regarding access to communications) to be on MetroSafe will stay on the Louisville-Jefferson County System.... either way, I have heard the old system will still be in operation to some extent after MetroSafe stands-up so I think we should clean it up in the data base so folks interested in following the agencies still there will have that pleasure.... I am going to try to do this with the help of all you regulars who live in and near Jefferson County.... I am trying to gather all the info possible from ULS (it looks like we have been absent some quasi-crucial info concerning this system AND MetroSafe). To that end I am going to take newsalan's fleet map and post it as fact so we can have something workable to use as base line... I am going to post the new talk groups gleaned using the new fleet map but leave the old (except obviously incorrect) talk groups in the data base all marked as OLD, again, so we have a base line of sorts....
Everyone's information and effort is crucial to our success in this effort!
 

ofd8001

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#11
Based on what I've seen, all Louisville-Metro Government radio users, as well as the suburban fire service, will be using the new system, even the animal control people. I am unaware if anything has changed, and about the only thing that could cause a change is money. So I am unaware of any agency being told "You don't need to go on it, so you ain't gonna."
 

unitcharlie

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#12
Thanx chief....
I have changed the freqs listed for what is now Louisville Metro Government (Analog) keping the name as much in line with the FCC data as possible.... it seems all of the control freqs were for MetroSafe... three freqs weren't listed for the current system.... perhaps this will help.... There are no Cobntrol Channels listed, so we'll need to add those post haste I reckon....
now on to the other system....
 

jerk

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#13
Update of frequencies being used.

Update submitted to database, but also here to show my thinking and to see if anybody monitors a channel I may have missed. This would be from the KKV802 license.

Ok this is what it monitored in use for Metro (analog) system
Control Channels: 856.2625; 857.2625; 858.2625; 859.2625

These above Control Channels are from licenses: WPPA787 WPPF796
In addition 854.71250 from those licenses is in use as a voice channel.
So all frequencies from the two above licenses are in use. xxx.2625 switches control on a daily basis, the other three are then part of the trunked voice channels.

The following frequencies only are verified in use from license KKV802
856. 9375; 857.9375; 858.9375; 859.9375

Right now I have no other verified in use frequencies from KKV802, so I would just list the above only for this system. So the system usage breakdown would be 1 Control Channel, (which changes daily) and 8 Voice channels. 9 total channels in use for this system.
 
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#14
Louisville-Jefferson Co System

newsalan said:
Update submitted to database, but also here to show my thinking and to see if anybody monitors a channel I may have missed. This would be from the KKV802 license.

Ok this is what it monitored in use for Metro (analog) system
Control Channels: 856.2625; 857.2625; 858.2625; 859.2625

These above Control Channels are from licenses: WPPA787 WPPF796
In addition 854.71250 from those licenses is in use as a voice channel.
So all frequencies from the two above licenses are in use. xxx.2625 switches control on a daily basis, the other three are then part of the trunked voice channels.

The following frequencies only are verified in use from license KKV802
856. 9375; 857.9375; 858.9375; 859.9375

Right now I have no other verified in use frequencies from KKV802, so I would just list the above only for this system. So the system usage breakdown would be 1 Control Channel, (which changes daily) and 8 Voice channels. 9 total channels in use for this system.
I am seeing the same, they switch one of the four control channels each day(WPPA787, WPPF796).
 

jerk

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#15
Ok, I've heard no data groups since listening last month and this month.
Anybody hearing them?

And since it appears they have moved or left the system... does that mean they are now on the "new" data frequencies 866.xxx MHz and above?

On a funny note, I was listening the other day and I heard "73" call everybody in to the office. Still didn't know what TG it was... (immediately stop what you're doing and come to the office).
Last night I watched the story about the ****roaches in the Urinal with the TV reporter filming them. I'm think that was what the big emergency was and they didn't want to put on the radio in case the media was listening.

So 600-3 is Parks CH 1 and 600-4 is Parks CH 2 and 73 is the head man.
 

jerk

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#16
12288 New group heard today.
Mayor's community bike ride water handout.

I searched several trunked systems looking for info and activity.
This was the only one I found, nothing on the new digital system.
I heard references to guards, but could find no related radio activity.
 
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