Low Band antenna whip length vs base coil tuning.

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Anderegg

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Currently operating a very long 52" NMO40 antenna for CHP (39-40MHz). It's on the roof of my car. I am looking to shorten this monstrosity somewhat, and discovered in the Larsen tuning cut chart, that the NMO34 whip cut length for 40MHz is around 37". The base load coil for the NMO34 vs the NMO40 is different obviously, but I am wondering, for RX only, would I get the same signal and reception on the roof with the 37" NMO34 as I get with the 53" NMO40? Knocking 15" of whip off the roof sounds pretty good to me. :)

https://www.pulselarsenantennas.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NMO-Low-Band-Series-08-12.pdf

Paul
 

mmckenna

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Shortening the whip with the new coil will probably result in a tiny bit less performance but you may not notice.
If 15 inches is worth the cost of a new antenna, then go for it.
 

Anderegg

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Low band is a weird duck...and my old antenna whip has all the black coating flaking off, and always hits the overhead bar at MacDownulds!

Paul
 

mmckenna

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Low band is a weird duck...and my old antenna whip has all the black coating flaking off, and always hits the overhead bar at MacDownulds!

Paul

Is it an older whip?

My black Larsen whips all did the same thing. I switched to all chrome whips so I didn't have to deal with it. People have told me that they changed the ways they coated the whips so it wasn't an issue, but I have not purchased any of them to find out for myself.

For shorter whips where I needed black, I just used black heat shrink tubing and kept it shiny with some armor-all. Won't work on really long whips very well, though.
 

Anderegg

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My NMO34 arrived, cut it to 38", and testing it now against the NMO 40 at 53". Practically identical scratchy reception of the Brown and Orange from (40-50 mile distance) Escondido, fading in and out. Happy to have chopped off 15" and no discernable loss in performance...thinking possibly better since when driving at speed it will bend back less.

Paul
 

Robertolson

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Been using this for CHP as a mobile for years .........Works great on all Bands, In The Southern Ca area....... even its not spec for low band...... it works great......... and its low profile to .........CHP Low Band is a funny cookie .....Trying to Monitor San Diego CHP while driver thur Rancho Cuccamonga is going to be disappointing, regardless of the Antenna.

The Old Scanner Shop In the Bay Area (now retired) told me about this Mobile antenna & said nothing Beats it & he was Right


 

Anderegg

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I found that that all band is a bit lackluster on 800MHz, for those of use that live in 800 areas.

I wonder if you could cut a VHF 1/4 wave to 160MHz and have a 1/8 wave 40MHz low band antenna? Not sure how antennas work. :-D

Paul

Been using this for CHP as a mobile for years .........Works great on all Bands, In The Southern Ca area....... even its not spec for low band...... it works great......... and its low profile to .........CHP Low Band is a funny cookie .....Trying to Monitor San Diego CHP while driver thur Rancho Cuccamonga is going to be disappointing, regardless of the Antenna.

The Old Scanner Shop In the Bay Area (now retired) told me about this Mobile antenna & said nothing Beats it & he was Right


 

W5lz

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The shorter antennas with a base loading coil are (at the design frequency) electrically the same as a full length 1/4 wave antenna. There are two things to keep in mind with this sort of antenna (and BOY is that a simplification). One is the length of the vertical element, and how much inductive reactance the base coil furnishes the antenna to make it both "resonant" and physically shorter, and to make the input impedance at least close to the "standard" 50 ohms impedance.
The part of the base coil that has the tap going to ground does the impedance matching. The rest of the coil above that tap point is the loading coil part and makes the vertical element electrically longer. There can be a seemingly infinite combinations of those two characteristics (plus the length of the vertical element) to make a usable antenna. So, if you want to change the resonant frequency/band of a typical base loaded antenna just changing the length of the vertical element only works over a very narrow range. To make drastic freq/band changes that base coil will have to be changed too.
"There's gotta be an easier way! Right?", yep there is. But you will definitely pay for it. The simplest way is to make that base coil variable. Now, stop and think that through for a minute. A 'screwdriver' type antenna makes for a variable loading coil. So, do the same thing for that impedance matching coil, Ta Da!! At this point 'simple' and 'inexpensive' have disappeared over the horizon... and are gaining speed all the time. Wanna try it? Hey! Be my guest, but take pictures and keep track of the cost, would you?
Oh, and then there's the "how well does it perform?" part. If you are looking for best performance, stick with the full length 1/4 wave. There doesn't have to be a huge difference, but there certainly will be a difference inversely proportional to over-all length...
 
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Anderegg

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So, here is something weird that happened while converting my longer NMO40's to shorter NMO34's. I bought a cheaper chrome version for a base aplication that I didn't care about looks, and simply swapping the uncut NMO34 chrome whip onto the NMO40 base, improved reception on my SD200 from -60dBm to -45dBm. As far as I know, the uncut whips are pretty standard (same p/n) for low band and VHF, with only the base coils being different. An uncut NMO34 whip would be the same length as an NMO40 uncut whip, which would be tuned for 40MHz uncut.

DOES THE BLACK COATING REALLY CAUSE THAT MUCH SIGNAL LOSS? :-O

Paul
 
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W5lz

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That black coating should make no difference at all. At least, on the whip portion. It might on where the whip makes contact with the base. Is there any coating at that end?
 

Anderegg

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No, coating was rubbed off with a file...when I take the whip off completely, the base alone receives at -90dBm, and sounds pretty much the same. :-\

Paul
 

W7FDX

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Been using this for CHP as a mobile for years .........Works great on all Bands, In The Southern Ca area....... even its not spec for low band...... it works great......... and its low profile to .........CHP Low Band is a funny cookie .....Trying to Monitor San Diego CHP while driver thur Rancho Cuccamonga is going to be disappointing, regardless of the Antenna.

The Old Scanner Shop In the Bay Area (now retired) told me about this Mobile antenna & said nothing Beats it & he was Right


I have one of those for my scanner and all the paint came off in less than 6 months...
 

john1806

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Search for: Coil Shortened Vertical Antenna Calculator

Should be hosted by 66pacific

Input your desired antenna dimensions into this calculator, it will tell you the inductance you need in the coil. There's also a coil inductance calculator linked on the page, you can take some measurements of your coil and figure out about what the inductance is.

Play around with them, they might give you a good general idea. I'd leave it un
 
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