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Low Band VHF find?

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relay99

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#1
Here in Northern Ohio I saw Reserve Army units out for weekend training with their vehicles and I had set my Hp436 to scan the low bands for any activity and both last summer many times and so far once this Spring the scanner locked on a frequency that was P25 freq. 30.100 with a NAC of 270. Traffic was very very brief but solid copy. Has anyone else ever scanned, heard or saw P25 on any of the low VHF bands? The 30.100 freq fits the VHF band plan but P25 NAC 270 was interesting. Ohio's National Guard uses the Statewide Marcs radio system and can be somewhat interesting at times. Maybe post this in mystery federal frequencies?
 

ChrisP

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#2
This is not the first instance I've heard of the military using P-25 in the VHF low band. The wide-band, all-mode radio systems that are deployed these days are perfectly capable of P-25 on nearly any frequency.

Other frequencies that have heard in P-25 mode include 30.05, 31.21 and 35.19. NACs monitored were N350 and N654.

- Chris
 

relay99

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#3
P25 radios

Thanks for the reply. I didn't mean to sound as if I discovered something new but around this area to hear P25 low band VHF was pretty cool. Was wondering if others spend any time scanning those low bands and what they may be hearing. I see some links at the bottom of your post so will be interested to check those out.
 

iMONITOR

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Thanks for the reply. I didn't mean to sound as if I discovered something new but around this area to hear P25 low band VHF was pretty cool. Was wondering if others spend any time scanning those low bands and what they may be hearing. I see some links at the bottom of your post so will be interested to check those out.
Most scanner hobbyist don't use the proper antenna. What typically comes with a scanner would be just about useless, and most choices for an outside roof top antenna don't perform well on VHF/Lo.

What are you using for an antenna?
 
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#5
I would be very surprised with the military using P25 in low band. There are a few newer models of mil radios that will do P25 in low band, but these are 30 to 512MHz radios with a fairly rare P25 option for VHF Hi and UHF interop. Going P25 on low band isolates them from all other military tactical radios out there.

From what I've seen the latest Thales PRC-148 JTRS and Harris PRC-152A with optional P25 would not be issued to just anyone and I think most are sent out of the country for tactical use.
prcguy
 

relay99

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Useless?

Most scanner hobbyist don't use the proper antenna. What typically comes with a scanner would be just about useless, and most choices for an outside roof top antenna don't perform well on VHF/Lo.

What are you using for an antenna?
Really? Well I guess we can debate antenna performance , different bands and get technical all day long on what's good or not for different bands, but to imply that the stock antenna is useless and that most hobbyists don't use the proper antenna is not entirely accurate . There are still many agencies such as fire departments and utilities who still utilize VHF low and the scanner receives them just fine for me with a stock antenna. With such a wide range of frequencies the scanner receives I think it's pretty remarkable the stock antenna is able to let you enjoy a little bit of all of them! It's fun to explore and experiment and probably can do better with different antenna types . I use various 800 & ham HT antennas along with the stock.
Heck, many times I've listened to the WWV time station on 25000 mhz indoors with the hp 436 with a stock antenna from Colorado all the way here to Ohio !! Useless?? But YMMV!!
 

iMONITOR

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Really? Well I guess we can debate antenna performance , different bands and get technical all day long on what's good or not for different bands, but to imply that the stock antenna is useless and that most hobbyists don't use the proper antenna is not entirely accurate . There are still many agencies such as fire departments and utilities who still utilize VHF low and the scanner receives them just fine for me with a stock antenna. With such a wide range of frequencies the scanner receives I think it's pretty remarkable the stock antenna is able to let you enjoy a little bit of all of them! It's fun to explore and experiment and probably can do better with different antenna types . I use various 800 & ham HT antennas along with the stock.
Heck, many times I've listened to the WWV time station on 25000 mhz indoors with the hp 436 with a stock antenna from Colorado all the way here to Ohio !! Useless?? But YMMV!!
If the signal is close/strong yes, or when skip rolls in (similar to CB). But a antenna designed for VHF/Lo will perform much better.
 

relay99

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Location

No............There is a Army Reserve base that serves as Headquarters (Google it) and also houses several other support units in Twinsburg . They have a large motor pool and store a variety of equipment & vehicles big and small that you can see occasionally travelling local roads during the week but on weekends convoys travel the Interstate both east and west. Maybe going to Ravenna (east) Camp Perry (west) or other ? Have heard ONG from Camp Perry on Ohio Marcs too. Also have seen some vehicles returning on a trailer and others needing a car wash bad as they were covered top to bottom in lots of mud!! How fun that must have been!! HAHAHA
 
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#10
Interesting, didn't know that. I'll have to check 30.1 occasionally, but sounds like it would be a rare catch. I have heard that Ravenna Arsenal is active on P25 on the weekends, but have never been able to catch it.
 

relay99

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#11
Interesting

For Prcguy...........your post was very interesting to read on the different radio types out there being used. By chance are you current or ex military that was fortunate to be able to use that type of equipment? I see that others across the country have logged and shared in various outlets the low band and other P25 frequencies they have heard so they must exist across several bands. I guess you would need to train with that stuff somewhere here prior to going overseas to use , and as you say......maybe the point IS to be isolated from others and they train that way.
Oh well who knows.... still fun to scan different segments of bands to see what may be heard.
 
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#12
rock on man

I've been scanning low-band in a rather serious manner for a few years now and I have yet to catch P25, so that is awesome. I have wondered whether or not that was used at all, so now I know. I suspect the more you focus on that area the more you will find. I am up to around 50 individual frequencies between 30-75mhz that i have found utilized to some degree in my area that were not skip instances (and military only that is). I am nowhere near a base, but am in a training area. but never have I caught p25 :) keep us updated!


also just an fyi, catches have been roughly half and half between various rubber duckies, factory and homebrew, and more "appropriate" antennas (CB whips, Marine Whips, 20 ft of 22awg crimped into a BNC and thrown over a tree limb etc) so it all depends on proximity. at a distance of 3-5 miles i caught a 38mhz using a RS800 mhz that was suction-cupped inside my car to the sun-roof glass a couple of weeks ago. kind of a fluke i will admit but not the first time that has happened.
 
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#13
Never been in the military but I collect modern military radios and get to play with the stuff all day long. I probably have more training and experience with military radios and antennas than most in the military.

Here is an article I did for Monitoring Times Magazine about military antennas and how they compare to civilian scanner types. The article is at post 15 in this thread: https://forums.radioreference.com/scanner-receiver-antennas/327230-antenna-specialists-mon752.html

In one picture there is a small grey case with a modern military 30-512Mhz handheld with 75w amplifier and batteries at my feet.
prcguy


For Prcguy...........your post was very interesting to read on the different radio types out there being used. By chance are you current or ex military that was fortunate to be able to use that type of equipment? I see that others across the country have logged and shared in various outlets the low band and other P25 frequencies they have heard so they must exist across several bands. I guess you would need to train with that stuff somewhere here prior to going overseas to use , and as you say......maybe the point IS to be isolated from others and they train that way.
Oh well who knows.... still fun to scan different segments of bands to see what may be heard.
 

relay99

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#14
Freq Capture

I've been scanning low-band in a rather serious manner for a few years now and I have yet to catch P25, so that is awesome. I have wondered whether or not that was used at all, so now I know. I suspect the more you focus on that area the more you will find. I am up to around 50 individual frequencies between 30-75mhz that i have found utilized to some degree in my area that were not skip instances (and military only that is). I am nowhere near a base, but am in a training area. but never have I caught p25 :) keep us updated!


also just an fyi, catches have been roughly half and half between various rubber duckies, factory and homebrew, and more "appropriate" antennas (CB whips, Marine Whips, 20 ft of 22awg crimped into a BNC and thrown over a tree limb etc) so it all depends on proximity. at a distance of 3-5 miles i caught a 38mhz using a RS800 mhz that was suction-cupped inside my car to the sun-roof glass a couple of weeks ago. kind of a fluke i will admit but not the first time that has happened.
To capture the low band I actually was able to dedicate 2 scanners 24/7 for days on end and got nothing. Don't get discouraged as it was difficult to capture the half dozen or so I got last summer . Each scanner was set to scan a different short range of frequencies and it doesn't hurt to have a land mobile military reserve depot in your town. I've learned along the way a few things to help log my results better. What I heard was EXTREMELY brief, just a short sentence or two, couple words or so that kind of thing. At the time was scanning with a HT with 800 mhz Remtronix antenna. Enjoyed all your methods of antennas you have tried !! Cool!!
A great article to read as you need to be a subscriber or you can just purchase a single issue, is the Dec.2017 issue of Spectrum Monitor online magazine. The author of "Federal Wavelengths " has some excellent info on low band freq searching and even has some screenshots of captured low band P25 freq off the scanners display! That gave me the idea to do the same if and when I get my next one!!
 

relay99

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#15
Very cool

Never been in the military but I collect modern military radios and get to play with the stuff all day long. I probably have more training and experience with military radios and antennas than most in the military.

Here is an article I did for Monitoring Times Magazine about military antennas and how they compare to civilian scanner types. The article is at post 15 in this thread: https://forums.radioreference.com/scanner-receiver-antennas/327230-antenna-specialists-mon752.html

In one picture there is a small grey case with a modern military 30-512Mhz handheld with 75w amplifier and batteries at my feet.
prcguy
You are a true "Enthusiast " in every sense of the word with your desire to collect military radios! Thanks for pointing me and all who read these forums with a link to your post. A Very well written article that makes for a great read with lots of information ! Depending on the Hamfest I saw a vendor who had a Vietnam era military PRC6 walkie talkie on his table which he used to make for some good conversation as people passed by shopping. Don't recall if it was workable but at those kind of events usually everything is for sale working or not.
Pretty cool to be able to play with a modern military radio, amps and antenna ! I can appreciate the passion!
 
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#16
What I heard was EXTREMELY brief, just a short sentence or two, couple words or so that kind of thing.
FWIW, I was in Myrtle Beach last June and discovered a 380 MHz trunked mil system. I only heard 1 or 2 transmissions, even though I was locked on, and they were just like what you heard.
 
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#17
Here in Northern Ohio I saw Reserve Army units out for weekend training with their vehicles and I had set my Hp436 to scan the low bands for any activity and both last summer many times and so far once this Spring the scanner locked on a frequency that was P25 freq. 30.100 with a NAC of 270. Traffic was very very brief but solid copy. Has anyone else ever scanned, heard or saw P25 on any of the low VHF bands? The 30.100 freq fits the VHF band plan but P25 NAC 270 was interesting. Ohio's National Guard uses the Statewide Marcs radio system and can be somewhat interesting at times. Maybe post this in mystery federal frequencies?
Yes, have heard P25 on VHF-Lo
 
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#18
oh boy, i had a revelation the other day.... ill explain when i have more time and am more sure of my suspicion, but at the moment I would like to ask everyone who has caught P25 Low Band transmissions, what particular model/brand of scanner was used?

Specifically the reason I ask is I suspect that PRO-668s may not decode P25 in the 25-54mhz range. I certainly could be wrong, but the dern thing is real quirky and as its my only digital scanner i have no way to cross verify anything like this. I know its asking for odds of hitting the lotto twice in a day, but... could someone try with a non-uniden and report back?

oh the heck with it, forget all of that, i just finally found the justification i have been needing for so long to buy a Uniden P25 scanner.....
 
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