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LPE200 Programming Error Message

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#1
OBJECTIVE: Trying to clone a non-transmit Jag700P System KRD model to a non-transmit LPE200 System model using Programmer R18, using RF Guys serial (DB9) cable for the Jag/7100 series radios. (When I received it the LPE had been set up with R19.)

BACKGROUND: Able to program the Jag with no problems---all 16 channels are accessible using top selector knob, groups can also scrolled using the up-and-down buttons and scan features work. (Thanks to ElroyJetson's input.)

ISSUES: When sending the same personality to the LPE200, the first three systems work fine, but on 4-through-16 it will display it will momentarily show CC SCAN and then INV SYS on the screen. I've verified that the radio type has been set to Prism HP/LPE.

I’ve tried sending the personality with the following settings:
TOP KNOB UP BUTTON DOWN BUTTON
Sys GrpUp GrpDn
Grp SysUp SysDn

Am I missing a step or setting somewhere along the line?

Any ideas, suggestions, etc. would surely be appreciated . . . .
 

GM

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Dec 19, 2002
Messages
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#2
Sounds like the LPE 200 has a talkgroup limit capacilty. I had a similar issue in the past, and it turned out that the LPE 200 had a talkgroup capacity of 128 talkgroups, and the Jaguar 700P had a 255 talkgroup limit capacity. When I went at or below those programmed talkgroup thresholds for the two radios, I had no issues. The only solution would be to increase the talkgroup capacity or purchase a radio that has the expanded talkgroup capacity.

Edit: With your LPE 200, what is the SysGrp and TrkGrp #'s listed in the Menu section of the radio?
 
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#4
You're trying to access more than 128 talkgroups or more than 255 trunked systems.

There's a catch to this with Harris equipment: The total allowed is not for UNIQUE talkgroups, it is
for the number of talkgroups accessible in the radio.

For example, you create two systems of 16 talkgroups each.

The system is "north" and the group set you use is named "police" with 16 entries in it.

Create a second system, "south", and as it's not a simulcast system, you use the SAME group set, "police" but you use a different trunked frequency set as the two sites have different frequencies,
but you use the same group set.

You're re-using the Police group set so you think you only have 16 talkgroups in the radio.

Well, sorry, according to the radio you're using 32 talkgroups. Because those talkgroups count in EVERY system they appear in.

Go down your systems list and count up the number of talkgroups in each one. They'll be more than 128, I bet.
 
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#6
Don't forget, there is a SYNOPSIS tab in both Programmer and RPM, which will do the math for you.

When I was doing the personality files for Pennsylvania DNR several years back, I kept maxing-out the radios with everything the customer wanted in the radios vs. the Features they wanted to purchase. Not Good!

When you are building a personality file, the Synopses tab is a handy too to do a running audit.
 
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#7
Actually you can probably buy more than 128 talkgroup capacity for a P5100.

In fact, I think that most features can be bought even if they're for a "limited feature" radio like a 5100.

I say this because my mobile scanner is an M5300. I have purchased features for it that technically aren't supposed to be in an M5300 and should only be in an M7300. The only really desirable feature I don't have in it is P25 Phase 1 trunking. Phase 2 TDMA is already in it.

The only thing I'm not quite sure about is whether or not an M5300 can actually work on the 700 MHz band. I've heard that it can't, and I've heard that it can. (Mine is an 800 model, FYI.)
 
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#9
Can a radio with Phase 2 TDMA enabled work properly without having P25 Phase 1 already enabled?
I doubt it.

To have ProVoice or P-25 Conventional, Digital Voice (former the "aegis" bit) needs to be enabled.

To have P-25 trunking, P-25 conventional must be enabled.

So, from that, I am assuming that to have Phase-2, Phase-1 must be enabled.
 
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#11
That is not true. Having phase 2 TDMA in a radio that does not have Phase 1 is a valid combination
fully supported by Harris. Though I am not in a position to prove it, yet, I was told that if you have Phase 2 TDMA in your radio, (that's option 47) then it will work with a Phase 2 TDMA system regardless of whether not the radio has Phase 1 trunking in it. I was told that by a Harris TAC engineer.

If he's wrong...they've got problems.

My M5300 has option 47 but does not have option 39 so it would be a perfect testbed for this scenario,
if I had a phase 2 system anywhere near me to try listening to. But I don't.
 
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#12
I may be wrong.

I just logged into TechLink and was able to configure a M5300 800 MHz for P-25 Trunking and Phase-2 without selecting Phase-1.

It might enable Phase-1 automatically in the Product Configurator. I really don't know anymore after being gone 4+ years.


Comments....
 
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#13
I thought P25 Trunking and Phase 1 where all part of a single feature.Are they two seperate features now?If you don't already have trunking enabled how would the radio function just having TDMA enabled?
 
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#14
I thought P25 Trunking and Phase 1 where all part of a single feature.Are they two seperate features now?If you don't already have trunking enabled how would the radio function just having TDMA enabled?
It should not function. It is a building block arrangement.

P-25 Conventional is the base.

P-25 Trunking (Phase-1) requires P-25 Conventional being enabled to operate.

P-25 Trunking (Phase-2) requires P-25 Trunking (Phase-1) & P-25 Conventional being enabled to operate.


The Order Configurator system might allow you to select just Phase-2, but when Order Services (a live person) would review the order, they would catch the error and let you (the customer) know of the prerequisite for Phase-1.
 
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