LTR Trunking Scans Entire Zone w/o Pushing Scan

[BirkenVogt]

Maybe this is the way the radios are supposed to work.

Most of our customers have only one "Channel" or "ID code" per GID in a trunking zone. But today I decided to program up a "does it all" radio so I can hear how the system is working. I put all the various ID codes for the customers in the #1 zone and put some other conventional stuff in other zones.

Here is the issue: even before I push "SCAN", whoever is talking on the same home channel and is in my list will come up on the display. This is the same for 7150s, 7180s, and I think 780s.

Again, maybe they are supposed to work this way? Scan type is set to "multi". I can't figure out the difference between "multi" and "list."

Do I just need to put one customer per zone and be done with it?

 

[ramal121]

LTR scan works weird. Check help for "group lock out" definition.

To have user control on what to scan, you'll have to put a single GID per zone ( duplicate systems on different zones) and use "multi". This uses a lot of real estate. This is for older radios like a TK-880. On newer radios you can select both system (press and hold D/A) and a GID (press D/A) like a TK-8180 as long as scan is set for "multi". Groups always scan within a single system unless programmed as "group lock out" = yes.

Hint, when I want to monitor multiple GIDs on a system (to see how everybody is doing) I use "block ID decode" in system edit.

EDIT: OK, I had to check.Only a TK-880 uses group lock out as you can only use the D/A button for system scan. Individual GIDs are set in programming software and cannot be changed by the user. Both the 8180 and 8150 allow system and GID select via the D/A button so group lock out is not available on these models.

 

[evfd1625]

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There is something called LTR background scan on those radios. It scans all the time regardless of the scan setting. Turn it off and all should be well. It's an option I the programming software. If background scan is on, as soon as a talk group is active it goes to that one and gets stuck until you change the channel or another group is active had been my experience. This option is a check box on options page 1.

 

[evfd1625]

Sorry, it's under the scan information option page.

 

[BirkenVogt]

I still can't find anything matching this description in kpg49, 79, or 89.

 

[evfd1625]

I know it's not in my version of the x180 software, but it's in the newer versions, but it still stays active if it was programmed with a new version with the LTR background scan option before it was programmed with a version of the FPU that doesn't have it.
I can pull up the help from my KPG-111d software, which does have it.

Edit > Scan Information > Scan
LTR Background Scan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LTR Background Scan allows you to enable or disable the Group Scan.

Group Scan can be used to automatically scan all GIDs (in other words, all Groups) in the selected LTR Trunking System, even if scanning is not activated by pressing the Scan key.

Range:
Check (Enable):
Enables the Group Scan.
Uncheck (Disable):
Disables the Group Scan.
Default:
Checked (Enabled)

 

[BirkenVogt]

Are you saying that if I get the newest KPG89d then it might have the checkbox?

Also, does anybody know what the difference between "multi" and "list" scanning really is?

From the help it looks like it was poorly translated, and I can't tell what one would do differently than the other.

Finally, I can't seem to see if there is any way to make added/deleted zones or channels permant. I like to delete things while scanning while driving and then when I turn off the radio and turn it back on again, they are back.

 

[evfd1625]

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I use multi, long press on the d/a button for zones and short for the channel. If you delete and add while scanning when you reset everything should be the same as before you started scan. If you delete while not actively scanning they will stay off the lists.
If you get the most recent version it should have that option. Maybe someone that has it can chime in and verify that.

 

[SB-Wi]

Are you saying that if I get the newest KPG89d then it might have the checkbox?

Also, does anybody know what the difference between "multi" and "list" scanning really is?

From the help it looks like it was poorly translated, and I can't tell what one would do differently than the other.

I have KPG-89D v1.61 [which is the most recent as of 11/22/12 according to http://www.repeater-builder.com/kenwood/pdfs/radio-programming-software-versions.pdf] and it doesn't have LTR Background Scan.

From the 7180/8180 Instruction Manual http://www.kenwoodusa.com/UserFiles...ions/LMR/Manuals/TK-7180-8180_B62-1766-10.pdf:

• Single Scan monitors only the channels of the currently selected zone, which have been added to the scanning sequence. If set up to scan Priority channels, the Priority channels will be scanned even if they are not within the currently selected zone.

• Multi Scan monitors all channels of every zone, which have been added to the scanning sequence.

• List Scan monitors all channels within the specified range of zones, which have been added to the scanning sequence. If set up to scan Priority channels, the Priority channels will be scanned even if they are not within any of the zones in the list.​

I also have a copy of the function reference manual for the 180 series which describes every function in great detail. I found it online but don't remember where:

• Group Scan
The transceiver automatically scans the Group ID's in the selected Zone when selecting the Zone in Trunking systems. A User does not need to press the Scan key to make the Group Scan. (This cannot be configured using KPG-89D)
​

EDIT: Link to software versions

 

[BirkenVogt]

I think what you wrote about group scan says it all. I guess every channel needs its own zone to work the way I want.

• Multi Scan monitors all channels of every zone, which have been added to the scanning sequence.

• List Scan monitors all channels within the specified range of zones, which have been added to the scanning sequence. If set up to scan Priority channels, the Priority channels will be scanned even if they are not within any of the zones in the list.

I still do not see what the difference is between those two. I think the wording is the same in the help file.

 

[LTR]

Here is how I have my 3180/8180 radios set up, and they do not scan the individual talk groups within the zones unless I press the programmed Scan button.

Set up the talk group as "no" in the Scan Add column in the zone information screen. If this is set to "yes" then the talk groups will scan automatically even if the scan button is off. I also have my Scan Type set to Multi in the Scan Information screen (I have multiple trunking zones) and in the Zone Edit Screen I have the Zone Add checked.

If you are wanting to scan certain talk groups at times, just make sure you have a button programmed for Scan Delete/Add so you can manually add the talk groups you want to scan, and then turn on scan using your programmed Scan button. Adding the talk group this way, does not allow it to scan unless the Scan button is on.

Hopefully this is what you needed for your radio to work the same, and I didn't forget anything.

 

[BirkenVogt]

So my mistake was setting them to scan "yes" in the software before programming the radio. If I set them to scan "no" and then add them after the fact they will still not scan unless I push scan, correct?

Also I still don't get what the difference between multi and list is.

 

[LTR]

Correct, set all of the talk groups to "no" in the programming, and then add or delete with the programmed button. Even with the talk groups added, it should not scan unless you press the Scan button (at least that is the way my x180's work).

The way I understand multi versus list, is that multi will scan all talk groups in all zones that are added to scan. List only scans what you set up in the scan list during programming in the zone edit screen.