• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Mid-Atlantic Digital Radio network - Connect Plus system 141

u2brent

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
1,331
Location
KRWDPAXKRS1
Tentatively, I updated those locations in the wiki ;)

https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Mid-Atlantic_Digital_Radio_Network_Site_Research_and_Color_Codes

LCN 8 on 47 is probably an error, and should be removed. unless (of course) it's confirmed to be correct... IDK :unsure:

Jan 2018 OTA Map:

Site 141-47

LCN = 1 TX = 454.21875 RX = 459.21875 DCC = 2 CC
LCN = 2 TX = 464.16250 RX = 469.16250 DCC = 2 CC
LCN = 4 TX = 464.23750 RX = 469.23750 DCC = 2 CC
LCN = 5 TX = 461.95000 RX = 466.95000 DCC = 2 CC
LCN = 7 TX = 451.95000 RX = 456.95000 DCC = 2

Dec 2018 OTA Map:

Site 141-47

LCN = 1 TX = 454.21875 RX = 459.21875 DCC = 2 CC
LCN = 2 TX = 464.16250 RX = 469.16250 DCC = 2 CC
LCN = 5 TX = 461.95000 RX = 466.95000 DCC = 2
LCN = 6 TX = 454.55000 RX = 459.55000 DCC = 2 CC
LCN = 7 TX = 451.95000 RX = 456.95000 DCC = 2
LCN = 8 TX = 454.55000 RX = 456.95000 DCC = 2 CC

:sneaky:
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,371
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
A friend (who is on these forums and may reply/confirm himself) has determined that Site 33 (454.29375 CC) is online. He suspects it might be Ogletown and plans a road trip sometime in the future to find out. So it won't be going in the DB yet. But Brent (if he wishes) can mark it in the Wiki as being online.

So we have Site 31 (unknown) and Site 33 (unknown) confirmed online with Site 35 (unknown) also likely being online based upon at least one other site reporting Site 33 as a neighbor. These are all likely in CentreComm territory, in or west of Ickesburg and in/south of Sigel / Renova.

It has been reported to me that Site 42 (Ebensburg / Pendleton) was checked and does not appear to be online yet.
Doh, I didn't realize Site 33 was already confirmed online. At any rate...

Site 141-33 NL: 26 27 38 31 34

So Sites 31 / 33 are online.

Site 31 is listed as a neighbor of Site 33 (??) and 57 (McConnellsburg)
Site 33 is listed as a neighbor of Sites 28 (Johnstown) and 31 (??)
Site 34 is listed as a neighbor of Sites 33 (??), 20 (Lewistown) and 30 (State College), which suggests to me that Site 34 is probably online
Site 35 is listed as a neighbor of Sites 20 (Lewistown), 30 (State College), 31 (?) and 57 (McConnellsburg) which suggests to me that Site 35 is probably online

I don't think we' had any site neighbor updates for the following sites in a long time. If there is anyone who can copy the sites below and who is able to use DSDPlus / DMRDecode in order to obtain a listing of Site Neighbor (NLs), please check when you can and report what you find.

Site 1 Harrisburg North
Site 7 New Cumberland / Harrisburg South
Site 8 Hanover
SIte 9 Shippensburg / Roxbury
Site 23 Newport
Site 57 McConnellsburg

Thanks!
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,371
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
Thanks, BM for the update, and thanks Brent for adding the NL to the wiki. I updated Site 9's NL in the DB.

Yes, definitely it pays to get an updated NL for each every active site on hte system on occasion. I guess I probably should broaden my request to ask that anyone who is able to monitor any MADRN site with DSDPLus please obtain an updated neighbor list for those sites and post them.

For those that might be inclined to do that, you can see what the existing neighbor list for a site is in the DB by doing this:

1. Go to https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5621
2. Click on any site name (eg: Harrisburg North, Cornwall, Malvern, York, etc)
3. View the line that says Site Neighbors

If you monitor a particular site with DSDPlus and it reveals site neighbors (a neighbor list) that is different from what you see in the DB, please post and/or submit to the database so that we can update.

Thanks!
 

u2brent

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
1,331
Location
KRWDPAXKRS1
Site 8 Hanover NL has not changed. Just picked it up last week.. :)
FYI,
Checked my log, Site 43 was added to Site 8's NL.

2018/12/25 19:18:27 Current network: 141 Mid Atlantic Digital
2018/12/25 19:18:27 Current site: 141-8 Hanover PA
2018/12/25 19:18:27 141-8 neighbor: Site 141-4 York PA
2018/12/25 19:18:27 141-8 neighbor: Site 141-7 New Cumberland PA
2018/12/25 19:18:27 141-8 neighbor: Site 141-9 Shippensburg PA
2018/12/25 19:18:27 141-8 neighbor: Site 141-17 Red Lion PA
2018/12/25 19:18:27 141-8 neighbor: Site 141-43 Waynesboro PA

Wiki Note:
And Just to confuse things, :p
I placed the previously reported LCN 4 (Which was missing from the latest OTA) back on Site 47 "for informational purposes" with a notation (In case a tech made a "Typo" in the latest Map), Hopefully that sites info will be confirmed by a driveby passerby in the near future. If the same frequency can be typo'd into the wrong LCN twice; Then maybe a whole line (LCN) could be deleted just as easily in error... :eek:

LCN = 4 TX = 464.23750 RX = 469.23750 DCC = 2 CC (LCN was removed from 12/2018 OTA MAP)
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,371
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
FYI,
Checked my log, Site 43 was added to Site 8's NL.

2018/12/25 19:18:27 141-8 neighbor: Site 141-43 Waynesboro PA

Wiki Note:
And Just to confuse things, :p
I placed the previously reported LCN 4 (Which was missing from the latest OTA) back on Site 47 "for informational purposes" with a notation (In case a tech made a "Typo" in the latest Map), Hopefully that sites info will be confirmed by a driveby passerby in the near future. If the same frequency can be typo'd into the wrong LCN twice; Then maybe a whole line (LCN) could be deleted just as easily in error... :eek:
Thanks, Brent. NL on 141-8 has been updated. Good thinking about the potential for typos or "typos" lol. No doubt it can happen.
 

Voyager

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Messages
12,043
Not sure why Site 28 seems to be sending a network map for 12 hours every Thursday morning whilst any other sites I (or you) can hear aren't.

The one guy who could get a network map (and who probably has gotten a network map) is Joe (Voyager). But I haven't seen him on the forums in quite a while.

mike
You can always ask via email. :)

I haven't been on the forums much for reasons I can't say or it will earn me *another* infraction.

I'll review the remainder of this thread, but I have a map that was sent a couple weeks ago and will update as necessary.
 

Voyager

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Messages
12,043
OK. Some of this MAY be duplicate info. I'm not going to go back and check each post for the past year or so.

BUT, here are the changes from the past several maps all consolidated into one set of info:

ADDED:
Con+, 141, 1, 19, 461.90000, 466.90000, 0 ; DCC = 1
Con+, 141, 1, 21, 463.38750, 468.38750, 0 ; DCC = 1

Con+, 141, 7, 19, 464.90000, 469.90000, 0 ; DCC = 7

Con+, 141, 24, 5, 454.55000, 459.55000, 0 ; DCC = 10 CC


CHANGED:
Con+, 141, 28, 5, 463.85000, 468.85000, 0 ; DCC = 14 CC
WAS: Con+, 141, 28, 5, 464.35000, 469.35000, 0 ; DCC = 14 CC

ADDED:
Con+, 141, 28, 7, 464.27500, 469.27500, 0 ; DCC = 14 CC


Con+, 141, 31, 5, 454.44375, 459.44375, 0 ; DCC = 1 CC
Con+, 141, 31, 7, 454.50625, 459.50625, 0 ; DCC = 1 CC

; Site 141-36 (NEW SITE)
Con+, 141, 36, 1, 454.21875, 459.21875, 0 ; DCC = 2 CC
Con+, 141, 36, 3, 454.61875, 459.61875, 0 ; DCC = 2 CC


REMOVED:
Con+, 141, 47, 7, 464.23750, 469.23750, 0 ; DCC = 2 CC


UPDATED: (NO LONGER CC)
Con+, 141, 47, 9, 461.95000, 466.95000, 0 ; DCC = 2


ADDED:
Con+, 141, 47, 11, 454.55000, 459.55000, 0 ; DCC = 2 CC
Con+, 141, 47, 15, 454.55000, 456.95000, 0 ; DCC = 2 CC
*** [NOTE TYPO(?) IN CH 15? HAS CH 11 RX freq and CH 13 TX FREQ]


ADDED:
; Site 141-60
Con+, 141, 60, 1, 454.62500, 459.62500, 0 ; DCC = 3 CC
Con+, 141, 60, 3, 461.45000, 466.45000, 0 ; DCC = 3 CC
Con+, 141, 60, 5, 464.63750, 469.63750, 0 ; DCC = 3 CC
Con+, 141, 60, 7, 454.62500, 469.63750, 0 ; DCC = 3 CC

; Site 141-61
Con+, 141, 61, 1, 454.20000, 459.20000, 0 ; DCC = 9 CC
Con+, 141, 61, 3, 461.61250, 466.61250, 0 ; DCC = 9 CC
Con+, 141, 61, 5, 464.16250, 469.16250, 0 ; DCC = 9 CC
 

Voyager

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Messages
12,043
For those who want it, here is the latest MADRN map. It was first transmitted around 12/20/2018 and is version 02082A.

The ones before that I received were:
10/10/2018 (v020828)
9/3/2018 (v020827)
4/19/2018 (v020826)

I suspect I missed v020829.

The changes above reflect changes across all these maps.

Oh - and as for 'schedules', I suspect maps are sent when changes are required and have no specific schedule.

And yes - I suspect someone is toying with us on Site 47. (or someone is really incompetent)
 

Attachments

Voyager

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Messages
12,043
That's why I posted the updates. There are still some things that are not updated in the WIKI.

As I said, "Some of this MAY be duplicate info"

And I didn't see anyone post the map. If it was, fine. I missed that. I don't see the map in the WIKI either.
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,371
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
Thanks, Joe. A little confusing since you posted changes in DSDPlus (LSN) format, but it's easily converted for the wki.

I had the map. I hadn't noticed site 36, and Brent probably didn't either. yet another one of the wonderful market area licensed locations. Argh.

No, I didn't post it. I didn't post it because I wasn't the one who obtained it. I would only post a network map that I obtained. But the one I got from an unnamed source is the same one that you have, and I believe that's the same one Brent has.

Thanks for posting it
 

Voyager

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Messages
12,043
When I review maps, I look at all the data. That's how I can find LCNs that change frequencies. (or added sites, or updated CC status, etc.)

Generally new sites are at the end, but it looks like sites 37/38/39 are still 'reserved' for some area.

What do you think of Site 47? Someone messing with us or someone who doesn't know what they are doing?

Oh, and yes I didn't make any changes to the data format, and DSD uses Base Slot as opposed to LCN.
 
Last edited:

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,371
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
When I review maps, I look at all the data. That's how I can find LCNs that change frequencies. (or added sites, or updated CC status, etc.)

Generally new sites are at the end, but it looks like sites 37/38/39 are still 'reserved' for some area.

What do you think of Site 47? Someone messing with us or someone who doesn't know what they are doing?
Good question. It was probably an editing fubar. Obviously it could have been purposeful, but it does no good for the system maintainers to do that if that is pushed to the radios. So I'm leaning towards accidental error. But, I'm sure that one day some system maintainer is going to put baloney in their map (after making sure it doesn't affect actual operation).

I'd give a good example of something that could really throw us off and not affected users on the system at all, but I don't want to give them any ideas. I'm sure you could think of more than one way they could do that as well.

Doing what they did on Site 47 is a nonissue for their radios if they don't have both repeaters (tied to LCN 6 and LCN 8) active at the same time. And we all know that for a large portion of the sites, they simply don't have all of those repeaters on (or likely even available to turn on).
 

Voyager

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Messages
12,043
The thing is that they have LCN 8 designated as a control channel that is the same as LCN 6, so in theory a radio could lock onto LCN 8 and transmit on the 'wrong frequency'. So that could mess up the user radios.

I thought about contacting them about that, but then I figured it might backfire if they know someone is paying attention to that info.

Maybe they are testing to see how intelligent the system is, and would such a typo be used by the radios?

I also had the thought that maybe it's a remote RX or secondary RX, but the radio could still lock onto LCN 6 and use that.
But, what if the system has someone on LCN7 then assigns someone else LCN 8 on the same slot?

Occam's Razor says it's just someone who doesn't know what they are doing. I see that a lot in the industry.
 

u2brent

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
1,331
Location
KRWDPAXKRS1
Thanks Voyager!
Yes that is the OTA version I have.
HOWEVER, I missed new Site 36.
It's been added to the wiki.
All the other changes were already noted and updated, as best I could determine.
:)
If I missed something, Please update the wiki or post the mistake here and I'll fix it... ;)
 

EricCottrell

Member
Database Admin
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
2,275
Location
Boston, Ma
Site 47 Hazleton (both in the network repeater map and in the DB) looks a bit odd -- specifically LCNs 6/8. Me thinketh the network map data, when entered in by the radio admin at MADRN, was botched (or <tin foil hat on> purposefully polluted). I don't how see how that scenario could play out well if indeed both of those LCNs are active.

LCN 6 454.55
LCN 8 454.55

If the site controller was actually programmed like that, there would be issues any time LCN 6 and LCN 8 were active at the same time.
Hello,

It appears in the data format that a frequency has to appear in every repeater slot. I have seen a default frequency, like 450.0000, and what appears to be a copy, paste, modify from another site. That is why you have to be careful with the data in the network map.

The site controller should be setup correctly and these entries are no problem since the site controller will not allocate those LCNs to a talkgroup.

I also have a local system that provides short-term rental radios for event, so I have seen the same TGs and the same radios used for different events throughout the year. It makes sense to have a cache of 50 or 100 radios ready-to-go for a short event.

73 Eric
 
Top