1981k20
Member
Is there any way to pick these up? Will Close Call pick them up?
Thanks,
Shaun.
Thanks,
Shaun.
MIKE phone question
- Thread starter 1981k20
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kerrydjones
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2004
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- 10
No, Mike phones use a system called: iDEN ( integrated Digital Enhanced Network ) and voice traffic on an iDEN is digital. So you will need a Digital Scanner.
1981k20
Member
Like a 396T? Or is there more then one kind of digital scanner?
inextremis
Member
Nope!
Yes. With a little bit of programming and a lot of $$$ you can do a lot with one of theses.
http://telephonyonline.com/news/web/telecom_comarco_supports_iden/
Look at the spec sheet at http://www.comarco.com/wts/downloads/Prizm.pdf
Have fun!
kerrydjones
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2004
- Messages
- 10
You will need to find someome a bit smarter then me. I know that Uniden scanners block cell phone freqs. Ask someone in USA Forums and ask them if they listen to Nextel using the same scanner as you use, It uses the same system. But different Freqs. Sorry I can not be helpful to you.
Long and short of it, there are no scanners on the market that will do IDEN.
Nextel and MiKE do not use different freqs, nor do they use cell phone freqs. They are both brand names for iDEN which is a trunking format which no scanner on the market can receive/decode. Here is the Wikipedia article on iDEN - it's pretty thorough in layman's terms. Essentially, iDEN is just another trunking system, but one that is of a digital format that no scanner can decode. It is not P25 format digital spec, so it cannot be decoded by digital scanners, even in conventional mode. This is a sample of iDEN audio from the Digital Modes Samples page.
iDEN operates between 851 and 869 MHz in the US and Canada, the same chunk of bandwidth that most 800 MHz public safety and business/corporate trunked radio systems use. This is the whole issue behind "rebanding" - the thousands of iDEN towers all over the continent in many places "walk on" the existing trunked radio systems, so the plan is to segregate iDEN into its own section of bandwidth, and give other 800MHz users their own parcel further away from the iDEN stuff.
I do think that having iDEN information in the database is valuable, as there may one day be a scanner or even a monitor system like Unitrunker which can handle iDEN. I don't subscribe to the same theory as others do that Provoice, iDEN, etc., will never be in a scanner simply because they're proprietary trunking protocols. So was Motorola's trunking protocol and GE/Ericsson's EDACS protocols, before someone found a way to monitor them - without the use of proprietary Motorola/GE code. All it will take is a studious, brilliant computer scientist or seven to figure out a way to decode the iDEN packet without using any of the copyrighted iDEN code, and it will be a whole new ball game.
iDEN operates between 851 and 869 MHz in the US and Canada, the same chunk of bandwidth that most 800 MHz public safety and business/corporate trunked radio systems use. This is the whole issue behind "rebanding" - the thousands of iDEN towers all over the continent in many places "walk on" the existing trunked radio systems, so the plan is to segregate iDEN into its own section of bandwidth, and give other 800MHz users their own parcel further away from the iDEN stuff.
I do think that having iDEN information in the database is valuable, as there may one day be a scanner or even a monitor system like Unitrunker which can handle iDEN. I don't subscribe to the same theory as others do that Provoice, iDEN, etc., will never be in a scanner simply because they're proprietary trunking protocols. So was Motorola's trunking protocol and GE/Ericsson's EDACS protocols, before someone found a way to monitor them - without the use of proprietary Motorola/GE code. All it will take is a studious, brilliant computer scientist or seven to figure out a way to decode the iDEN packet without using any of the copyrighted iDEN code, and it will be a whole new ball game.
N
N_Jay
Guest
inextremis said:
Only if you can write a VSELP decoder.
That unit does not decode the voice packets.
N
N_Jay
Guest
Jay said:Nextel and MiKE do not use different freqs, nor do they use cell phone freqs. They are both brand names for iDEN which is a trunking format which no scanner on the market can receive/decode. Here is the Wikipedia article on iDEN - it's pretty thorough in layman's terms. Essentially, iDEN is just another trunking system, but one that is of a digital format that no scanner can decode. It is not P25 format digital spec, so it cannot be decoded by digital scanners, even in conventional mode. This is a sample of iDEN audio from the Digital Modes Samples page.
iDEN operates between 851 and 869 MHz in the US and Canada, the same chunk of bandwidth that most 800 MHz public safety and business/corporate trunked radio systems use. This is the whole issue behind "rebanding" - the thousands of iDEN towers all over the continent in many places "walk on" the existing trunked radio systems, so the plan is to segregate iDEN into its own section of bandwidth, and give other 800MHz users their own parcel further away from the iDEN stuff.
I do think that having iDEN information in the database is valuable, as there may one day be a scanner or even a monitor system like Unitrunker which can handle iDEN. I don't subscribe to the same theory as others do that Provoice, iDEN, etc., will never be in a scanner simply because they're proprietary trunking protocols. So was Motorola's trunking protocol and GE/Ericsson's EDACS protocols, before someone found a way to monitor them - without the use of proprietary Motorola/GE code. All it will take is a studious, brilliant computer scientist or seven to figure out a way to decode the iDEN packet without using any of the copyrighted iDEN code, and it will be a whole new ball game.
I agree right to the point where he talks about decoding the audio.
I think that is always going to be an issue due to licensing issues, and the act that the likelihood of a cellular architecture scanner would be a success due to hand off and other issues.
N_Jay said:
Respectfully, I disagree with that.. my knowledge of the copyrights is limited, but my understanding was that it's illegal to reverse-engineer or use proprietary code in this kind of situation. I was under the impression that the way Motorola, EDACS, etc. signals were "cracked" is that the programmers/designers of the scanners created their own code to handle decoding the data stream, of which they already knew the properties and structure, and that that is legal. So I'm of the opinion that the same could be done for ProVoice, iDEN, MPT1327, or any other trunk/data format.
Am I wrong? Is there a reason this couldn't be done in the future? Am I totally wrong about how the original trunk trackers were designed?
N
N_Jay
Guest
Jay said:
The issues is the vocoder is very specific.
In addition the companies developing vocoders work almost exclusively with software IP and are very good at protecting it.
Decoding it is relatively easy. Doing legally in a commercial product will be the challenge.
There is also an extremely limited market. A scanner on a cellular architecture system like iDEN is going to miss more calls than it receives. Consumers will not stand for that.
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