Military flights and filed flight plans

[kmacka]

I was wondering if military aircraft file flight plans with the faa. I'm not talking about combat air patrols or training in moa's, but just routine flights. At my local airport there are a few times during the week when you will see Chinooks or Blackhawks come into the airport (KAVP) and land at the FBO (First Flight) to re-fuel. I was wondering if these flights are required to file a flight plan, hence you would be able to check and see when/if they are going to land.

 

[zz0468]

I don't know if that information would be available to the public, but I do know that, as a pilot, when I talk to an FAA briefer about weather and conditions along my route, if I ask about military activity on the VR and IR training routes, I am given pretty accurate information as to when they will be crossing my path. In more than one case, I saw military traffic right where and when I was told to expect it.

 

[kmacka]

If they don't file a flight plan with the FAA there must be a way that the military notifies either the faa/airport/artcc's of their intentions, be it either landing, destination, etc.

 

[zz0468]

I believe they file flight plans, because it's the same controllers handling both military aircraft and civilian aircraft in U.S. airspace.

Are there any military pilots out there that can shed some light on this?

 

[trainman111]

I know for a fact that the E-6B's from Patuxent NAS file flight plans. Take a look in the MilAir Sticky III under the Maryland thread. Some of the postings include their flight plan. I know the VT ANG F-16's that go from Burlington to Langley and vice versa file flight plans. I'm pretty sure that most military aircraft file flight plans, with the exception of scrambled jets.

 

[SquelchKnob]

The Military aircraft do file a Flight Plan. I copy groundside of Clearance Delivery at my local base and hear the Flight Clearances read back daily. Don't know it's availability to the public. I hope it is not available. At least not in real time.

I am sure there are exceptions to this rule. I.E. Alert Launches and such. But if the Military are going to fly through Civilian Airspace they are in constant contact with Civilian Air Traffic Controllers. I am sure it would cause quite a bit of grief if it was done any other way.

At PAX River there are instances where I am not so sure they file a flight plan or not. But in those cases the aircraft are departing PAX, flying to the test areas, which are controlled by PAX ADVISORY and or BAYWATCH and RTBing to PAX. They are in PAX controlled airspace the entire time. I am not sure an FAA filed flight plan is in place here. But I know the flight has very likely been approved by the base ATC or Flight Planning.

In these instances the flights could be considered an exagerated round robin. For "SOME" Round Robin flights I do not believe Flight Plans are required as long as you stay under a certain altitude and within a certain area. Maybe some of the Pilots are could confrim this.

But I think it safe to say if a Military bird is going to transit Civlian Airspace, A Flight Plan has been filed except for ALERT launches.

 

[Markb]

I am not a military pilot, but generally in the civil world, flight plans are always filed if the flight will be IFR. That includes any flight above FL 180 regardless of the weather conditions.
A VFR flight may or may not have a filed flight plan at the pilot's discretion, with the exception being in the national border areas, where it's required. Being that most mil aircraft very easily break that FL 180 ceiling or travel a long distance, they are likely to file a plan.
In my experience, ATC usually can tell you if a MOA or other military airspace is active based upon the time of day, but unless a particular aircraft is talking to the controller, their info is limited to whether a route or area is active or not.
ATC is responsible for providing radar service (traffic separation and other services). It doesn't matter whether the aircraft is going 60 knots or 600, I don't believe that a military aircraft is required to file a flight plan unless the above conditions are met......

 

[kmacka]

Well let me ask this...if military flights DO file a flight plan with the faa, would that show up on flightaware, or is it discrete. If it is discrete to us (public and flightaware) there has to be a way for artcc/tracon and destination airports to know of there arrivals, correct?

 

[SquelchKnob]

I am not a military pilot, but generally in the civil world, flight plans are always filed if the flight will be IFR. That includes any flight above FL 180 regardless of the weather conditions.
A VFR flight may or may not have a filed flight plan at the pilot's discretion, with the exception being in the national border areas, where it's required. Being that most mil aircraft very easily break that FL 180 ceiling or travel a long distance, they are likely to file a plan.
In my experience, ATC usually can tell you if a MOA or other military airspace is active based upon the time of day, but unless a particular aircraft is talking to the controller, their info is limited to whether a route or area is active or not.
ATC is responsible for providing radar service (traffic separation and other services). It doesn't matter whether the aircraft is going 60 knots or 600, I don't believe that a military aircraft is required to file a flight plan unless the above conditions are met......

Thanks Mark,
Makes sense and got me to thinking.
Now that I think about it most of the Flight Releases I hear read given via the base's Clearance Delivery freq are for IFR Flights. Off the top of my head I can't remember them ever specifically giving a VFR Clearance. Quite often I hear them tell a pilot he is "On hold for IFR Release". Once his release is in the system they usually tell him what the first few steps of his flight is going to be then they will say "then as filed".

As for the MOAs or other airspace being active and the controller being aware. I have no experience here. But periodically here at PAX I have heard the PAX ATC stating that WASH CTR is taking back a given airspace. Never state a reason. I assume if a test area is not being heavily used and WASH CTR needs to make use of it they take it back. Generally not the entire area. Usually they just take back, say, 10-30,000 feet of altitude the top of a test area. There is probably some sort or arrangement worked out between the two facilities for this. So in this particular instance I am guessing WASH CTR is aware of the airspace's use. Does not necessarily mean that it applies to all MOAs. In this case it is more likely the two controller's (ZDC and NHK) exchanging information about the airspace's use as opposed to a pilot and controller.

Editing here. Just adding a thought. Not really applicable to the discussion but for some reason just remembered this and thought I would throw it out while thinking about it.

Something these controllers do not like is when aircraft flying in the test areas, over extend their turns and "spill out" of the area they are assigned to. When they "spill out" of a PAX test area they end up in WASH CTR's airspace. Well, WASH CTR does not seem to like that too much. Some airplane all the sudden showing up in their area. A few weeks back there was an aircraft in the test areas and he spilled out on two occasions. On the third occasion, after a reprimand on the two previous ones. The BAYWATCH controller advised this pilot that he needed to EXIT the airspace "immediately". They got tired of messing with the guy. Basically told him to leave. He was not a happy camper. He demaded phone numbers, explained he could not control the turn radius of his aircraft and such. The controllers were not up for discussion. He went home to Andrews.

 

[abqscan]

Well let me ask this...if military flights DO file a flight plan with the faa, would that show up on flightaware, or is it discrete. If it is discrete to us (public and flightaware) there has to be a way for artcc/tracon and destination airports to know of there arrivals, correct?

FlightAware does not track military aircraft and presidential movement flights (e.g., Air Force One, Marine One, etc.) are operated by the US military.

 

[trainman111]

It does however track some foreign military aircraft, especially ones from Europe.

 

[tmfok7]

I can say for a fact that owners of private aircraft can request their flight information not be made public on Flightaware. I checked an aircraft one day out of KBFI in Seattle and it came up with something to the effect of "the owner of this aircraft has requested that the flight information not be made public". Just thought I'd pass it on....

 

[ericksonmj]

As a former military "Operations Officer", and having worked at the squadron and wing level, I can tell you that every AC either fixed wing or rotary, is required to file a flight plan if it is going to leave the ground. If for no other reason than to have a starting point in the event that there would be a mishap. And yes you will not find their plans by looking them up in any online flight tracking system, depending on the mission most of the ATC's out there may not even know about them.

 

[Markb]

Yeah, but is it an FAA flight plan or one unique to the military??

 

[TinEar]

Yeah, but is it an FAA flight plan or one unique to the military??

Mark, there is only one ATC system. All flight plans are with the FAA. Military flight plans are simply blocked from systems like Flightaware and others that have partial access to the FAA's system.