MIMO 4G mobile setup

[KC3AWP]

Hello all,
So I needed to slim the Verizon bill down a bit and decided to remove the laptop and iPad from the bill and go with a MiFi 8800L with an external antenna setup vs a booster. Living in Central PA is a PITA but anyways... im not too familiar with which setup will yield best results.

I was originally thinking of putting 2 4g antennas about 4 feet of each other on NMO mounts on either side of my suburban but im not sure if spacing has any factor. So I was also looking up the possibility of a dedicated 4g MIMO dome.

While im not too concerned about holes, the dome would be one less hole, but the two antenna setup is cheaper. Would I see better performance from one vs another? Any input would be appreciated! Ill include screenshots of the shopping carts of both setups so you can see what gear I plan to use and a screen shot of my vehicle so you can see where Id put the two antenna's in the dual set up.

 

[mmckenna]

I've got a similar multi band/multi use (LTE x 2, WiFi x 2, GPS) antennas on top of my work truck.
They are pretty big and need a nice flat area to mount on. The have a gasket that will give you some leeway if the roof isn't perfectly flat at the mounting location, but there's limits to what it can do. Routing the big wad of coax isn't super easy, either. Getting the wrench up there to tighten the nut can be a challenge unless you drop the headliner.

I've got a bunch of other antennas on the top of this truck, so mounting separate antennas wasn't an option.

If you have the real estate up there, go with two separate NMO mount antennas. That makes the install easier. It also allows you to run some different antennas. Running two different antennas with different gain/patterns might actually be beneficial.
And if you ever remove it, you've got two NMO mounts up there you can use for ham stuff.

As for spacing, you are dealing with low power cellular stuff, so you don't need a lot. our marked locations would probably be fine. You could even put one up front and one farther back to see how it does with fading.

 

[jeepsandradios]

I played with the mifi stuff and had nothing but issues with antenna's. You can buy good used Sierra Wireless modems on ebay for cheap. They are made to go in a vehicle, have SMA connectors and will power on and off with the truck. You would be much happier with one vs a MiFi. Think my last one for my Jeep was $75 and just popped in my Verizon sim.

 

[KC3AWP]

I've got a similar multi band/multi use (LTE x 2, WiFi x 2, GPS) antennas on top of my work truck.
They are pretty big and need a nice flat area to mount on. The have a gasket that will give you some leeway if the roof isn't perfectly flat at the mounting location, but there's limits to what it can do. Routi...

Was hoping to get a reply from you!

Good to hear, I was wanting to go with the dual antenna setup just for the fact that eventually I may get a 5G modem and afaik, theres no external antennas, or there may only be one... not sure yet. But it does give me two more NMO spots. I just wasnt sure if MIMO needed any special spacing. Having a Suburban I have plenty of real estate, I just have to watch the space where the sunroof occupies when its open. I am also taking what I learn here and will apply it to our incident managment unit which currently uses a nighthawk M1 from firstnet.

 

[APX8000]

I agree with the Sierra wireless. Have used them in pole cams, drop vehicles, etc. They work well.

 

[APX8000]

And stay away from FirstNet. Nothing but problems.

 

[KC3AWP]

I played with the mifi stuff and had nothing but issues with antenna's. You can buy good used Sierra Wireless modems on ebay for cheap. They are made to go in a vehicle, have SMA connectors and will power on and off with the truck. You would be much happier with one vs a MiFi. Think my last one for my Jeep was $75 and just popped in my Verizon sim.

Will keep note! I only paid $40 for the MiFi used online and just swapped out the sim from the laptop to the Mifi. I have had good luck with internal gear from Sierra Wireless as the ToughBook's ive had ran their Gobi's.

The only downside with gear like Sierra Wireless and even Cradle Point is usually the enterprise stuff gets to be a hassle with non commercial accounts when you go to activate or change anything on your account. It usually involves numerous calls and sometimes multiple support people. I wish sometimes it were just as easy as calling and telling them you need a sim with this plan and letting the network figure out the rest.

But I will definately keep that in mind if the MiFi dosnt work out. The NMO mounts ill be getting will terminate in SMA and will have a TS9 adapter so if I do go to a modem itll be an easy swap out!

 

[KC3AWP]

And stay away from FirstNet. Nothing but problems.

Our agency choose them but they do alright around our area. I run both Verizon and FirstNet as Verizon comes in strong at my house then three blocks away its ATT/FirstNet only.

 

[mmckenna]

Good to hear, I was wanting to go with the dual antenna setup just for the fact that eventually I may get a 5G modem and afaik, theres no external antennas, or there may only be one... not sure yet. But it does give me two more NMO spots. I just wasnt sure if MIMO needed any special spacing. Having a Suburban I have plenty of real estate, I just have to watch the space where the sunroof occupies when its open.

Spacing won't matter. Obviously you want some space between them. If you think you may reuse these later on for other uses, give a few feet at least, that will cover you for any reasonable future use.

While you are at it, go with the Larsen NMOHF mounts. The HF - High Frequency - mounts will give you more options for antennas. The center button will pull out and allow you to install GPS, WiFi, and other higher frequency antennas.

 

[mmckenna]

Our agency choose them but they do alright around our area. I run both Verizon and FirstNet as Verizon comes in strong at my house then three blocks away its ATT/FirstNet only.

Yeah, the FirstNet/AT&T versus Verizon thing depends on your location. I've been on FirstNet for a while now and it works fine where I am. I've been other places where Verizon works better. All depends on your specific location.

Some of our patrol cars use a dual SIM Sierra Wireless unit and run a FirstNet and a Verizon card. That way we can use whatever is available.

 

[APX8000]

Some of our patrol cars use a dual SIM Sierra Wireless unit and run a FirstNet and a Verizon card. That way we can use whatever is available.

Yep, great idea. Our Verizon was much better. They went to FirstNet for the price, but quickly realized coverage was just not there.

 

[jeepsandradios]

I have never talked to Verizon or ATT for my Sierra Wireless modems. You can run them very basic inside. I shut off all updates and such and it works well. The advantage is my mifi I always forgot and left on or would forget to turn on especially when jumping in for an incident. Now by the time I hit the end of my road my wifi is active and tablet and radios are already connected.

The first net vs verizon discussion is something no one understands. I have seen counties switch completely to FN and realize they have no coverage. I have a FN sim in my LEX11 and I have basically no coverage for 2 hours from my house. Luckily the phones has dual sims so run a verizon prepay sim in the second slot.

 

[vagrant]

@jeepsandradios - Is there a particular Sierra Wireless modem you use with Verizon?

 

[jeepsandradios]

I have been using the GX440/450 with good luck.

 

[KC3AWP]

Yeah since dual sim, its made a lot of headaches disappear. Verizon is great wherever there is populous but as soon as you're rural forget about it, its all ATT. Im curious how Tmobile is cutting into the market. I dont know enough people with their phones to see the coverage.

Anyways, the mifi had its first semi test with a trip through the Harrisburg and Lancaster area and while I carried 2 out of 5 bars most of the trip I did lose service a time or two on Rt 11. I did go with mmckenna suggestion with nmohf for the expanded options as well as it came with LMR200 coax instead of RG58, its going to need all the help it can get with its low power.

Will post updates with install pics if anyone is interested, and if its all installed in time Ill be in BFE after the 4th of July in an area I know very well where there there is a sharp drop in service that I can test if the external antennas are making a difference of not.

 

[mmckenna]

If money isn't an object, get one of these AirGain units:

https://airgain.com/products/airgainconnect-antenna-modem/fleet/airgainconnect-ac-hpue/

 

[wwhitby]

Yeah since dual sim, its made a lot of headaches disappear. Verizon is great wherever there is populous but as soon as you're rural forget about it, its all ATT. Im curious how Tmobile is cutting into the market. I dont know enough people with their phones to see the coverage.

I've got T-Mobile and have had it since 2006. I'm grandfathered into a plan so good that it would cost me way too much to switch, even to a first responder type plan! Anyway in my area, T-Mobile is good in populated areas, but it does have gaps in some concrete and steel construction buildings in coverage areas. For example, I volunteer at my local EMA, and when I go into the EOC, I lose signal. My son has Verizon and he still has signal. Even FirstNet has signal. I have to use WiFi to use my phone or step out into the parking lot. And when I go into rural areas off the major highways, I will lose signal. However, there are some areas in the county that have NO cellular signal whatsoever. Its a good thing I have a two way radio!

Having said all that, a friend of mine with more knowledge of cell carriers than I do has told me that T-Mobile is agressively expanding in our area, so hopefully the coverage issues will be a thing of the past.

Around here, Verizon is the best, and T-Mobile and AT&T are about the same behind Verizon. FirstNet is known as "Worst Net" around here.

Personally, I still wish I had something like my old Nokia 6120 and the Nokia car kit with an external gain antenna!

 

[KC3AWP]

Personally, I still wish I had something like my old Nokia 6120 and the Nokia car kit with an external gain antenna!

Yeah I remember when AMPS was shut off, we lost some coverage. Its funny explaining to younger people that you knew you were about to lose signal when you heard the static growing stronger. But I did hear the same about TMobile from our city who had to put repeaters in their buildings.

The install is delayed a few days as I was sent the wrong connectors, should be in this week.

 

[KC3AWP]

Sorry for the long delay, after 2 months of use the MiFi could definitely be better. Im not impressed. It seems it stays on its internal antennas as long as possible before switching to the external antennas, if it does at all. As most people I imagine are using these stock and as is, they were never going to super well.

Ive been looking into getting a serria wireless modem now. I looked at the GX440, any other recommendations? Verizon carrier and have external SMA connectors for the cellular side, 12v etc...

 

[jeepsandradios]

I just put the GX450 in my other jeep. Running 3 for home use now. Seem to be solid units.