Mixing radio manufacturer brands

[montecarlo31]

As a frequent lurker but limited poster, I've finally had a question I can not locate an answer to. We currently hold an FCC license to operate on a few frequencies from UHF 451 to 469 in Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. We just renewed our license and have been rolling out some new radios, we have previously been 100% Motorola (hand and mobile mounted). We've experienced some issues with Motorola from the availability aspect of some radios from our sole vendor. We have approximately 20 radios at this point and will likely ramp to 50-100 adding some vehicle-mounted repeaters. As I've become increasingly frustrated with Motorola's availability I asked if we could go with another vendor (ICOM/Kenwood/etc). Our current vendor only sells and services Motorola so I am a bit unsure if his answer that even if radios are programmed on the same frequency they must be the same brand doesn't seem to add up. We use various models from CP200s to 5350s, all digital if that makes a difference.

So my question is, can we purchase any "brand" digital UHF radio, have the vendor program to the required frequencies and go or are we married to Motorola?

Thanks in advance!

 

[clbsquared]

It depends on what type of “digital” platform you’re using. Is it P25, DMR. Or is it just conventional UHF. A lot of people mistakenly call all radios “digital” because they are programmed with computer software.
However, if you are using CP200’s, that radio is only analog capable. Which would mean you are not using P25 or DMR (MotoTRBO). However, if it is a CP200d then there is the possibility that you’re using MotoTRBO. Which would make sense with the 5350’s you have. This means you will only be able to use manufacturers who offer a DMR radio. Vertex and Kenwood both offer DMR radios as well as a few other manufacturers.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Vertex is now a defunct brand in terms of LMR as it was fully absorbed by Motorola at the beginning of 2018.

With your current fleet, DMR capable would be the key thing to chase. Kenwood offers DMR in the NX-1000/3000/5000 series radios. Tait offers DMR. Those will be your two best supported alternatives in the US depending on location.

 

[mmckenna]

So my question is, can we purchase any "brand" digital UHF radio, have the vendor program to the required frequencies and go or are we married to Motorola?

As others have suggested, it's dependent on how the radios are programmed.

In most cases, yes, you can take a radio from one brand and make it talk to another brand. There are some special cases where that won't work, but there's no way to tell if that's something that is going to come into play here.

There is more to programming radios than what is shown on the FCC license, so if you want to use other brand radios, you need to know exactly how your existing radios are programmed.

Some radio shops have been known to add read/write passwords to radios, so pulling info out of your existing radios may be a challenge.


But, yes, absolutely this can be done. You need a shop you can trust. As long as the existing shop hasn't locked down your radios, then another shop can read them and set up the programming to work between brands.

You are correct to be suspicious. There are shops out there that will lead you to think that they are your only option.

Start by finding a good radio shop you trust and preferably one that sells other brands. I'd recommend Kenwood, as they'll support DMR, and it's possible your Motorola radios are running DMR also.

 

[montecarlo31]

Thank you for all the responses.

Currently, all our radios are "digital", I believe. We're running CP200D radios up to the XPR 5350e. I've been told multiple times that we are on a digital frequency. We are not running P25 which I am aware of. Unfortunately, I've found that in our area of Florida trustworthy radio shops are tough to find. I will check and see if these are locked and go from there.

 

[mmckenna]

Thank you for all the responses.

Currently, all our radios are "digital", I believe. We're running CP200D radios up to the XPR 5350e.

OK, so with those radios you are either running analog or DMR. If they are telling you it's digital, then it's DMR.

I've been told multiple times that we are on a digital frequency.

OK. Well there really is no such thing as a "digital frequency", so probably someone being generic with their terms. Like I said, probably running DMR. You really want to find your FCC license, as you'll need that if you are going to expect another radio shop to assist you.

We are not running P25 which I am aware of. Unfortunately, I've found that in our area of Florida trustworthy radio shops are tough to find. I will check and see if these are locked and go from there.

Kenwood makes some nice DMR radios that will likely do what you need.

If you have software/cable for your radios, try reading them. If they are password locked, go back to the shop that sold them to your company and ask for them to either give you the password so you can read your own radios, or have them remove the password. The radios belong to your company (unless you are renting them) so they should not be locking you out of your own equipment.

Then, read the radios yourself and take that info to a good Kenwood shop. @kd4efm would be a good place to start. He works for a Kenwood dealer in Florida and would probably be more than happy to help you get some appropriate radios.

Kenwood NX-1300DUK hand held radios are nice affordable units. I've got about 70 of them running at work.
NX-1800 is the mobile version.

 

[TampaTyron]

You should really get a copy of your codeplug and look and see what you guys are actually running. Trusted radios shops are not just rare in FL, they are like that all over the US, Canada, Africa, Middle East, etc. There is a shortage of knowledgeable techs and a shortage of folks who standup to the sales/admin folks telling everyone to "sell, sell, sell". I have worked IN many radio shops and worked WITH hundreds of them all over the world. We sell Moto, Kenwood, Icom, BK, and even an offshore brand Titan. Depending on if you are running analog or DMR digital and any encryption or features will determine what is interoperable. You could always reprogram the units for analog, but you may give up some advanced functions that may be in use. Also, the mobile repeaters wil be fun! There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on here that can really help. TT

 

[montecarlo31]

OK, so with those radios you are either running analog or DMR. If they are telling you it's digital, then it's DMR.



OK. Well there really is no such thing as a "digital frequency", so probably someone being generic with their terms. Like I said, probably running DMR. You really want to find your FCC license, as you'll need that if you are going to expect another radio shop to assist you.



Kenwood makes some nice DMR radios that will likely do what you need.

If you have software/cable for your radios, try reading them. If they are password locked, go back to the shop that sold them to your company and ask for them to either give you the password so you can read your own radios, or have them remove the password. The radios belong to your company (unless you are renting them) so they should not be locking you out of your own equipment.

Then, read the radios yourself and take that info to a good Kenwood shop. @kd4efm would be a good place to start. He works for a Kenwood dealer in Florida and would probably be more than happy to help you get some appropriate radios.

Kenwood NX-1300DUK hand held radios are nice affordable units. I've got about 70 of them running at work.
NX-1800 is the mobile version.

Thank you for the input. I do have a copy of our FCC License (I can PM the call sign / File Number if that helps clarify anything. I will work on getting the software and cable for the radio, I need to probably get this anyway as we need to update a few radios to our new assigned frequencies.

I will reach out to @kd4efm as well and see if he can help and provide radios for us.

You should really get a copy of your codeplug and look and see what you guys are actually running. Trusted radios shops are not just rare in FL, they are like that all over the US, Canada, Africa, Middle East, etc. There is a shortage of knowledgeable techs and a shortage of folks who standup to the sales/admin folks telling everyone to "sell, sell, sell". I have worked IN many radio shops and worked WITH hundreds of them all over the world. We sell Moto, Kenwood, Icom, BK, and even an offshore brand Titan. Depending on if you are running analog or DMR digital and any encryption or features will determine what is interoperable. You could always reprogram the units for analog, but you may give up some advanced functions that may be in use. Also, the mobile repeaters wil be fun! There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on here that can really help. TT

Thank you for the help, I will work on getting the software and cable (assuming this is the codeplug?). Not sure I can get this done before Christmas as we're mobilizing for a new job and I've been dealing with trailer setup, Tampa Electric, water districts and plumbers.

I will follow up asap.

 

[AM909]

Software and cables can be expensive and difficult to source correctly and there is a learning curve, especially when you have multiple types/ages of radios (even just Motorola-branded). As someone said, there is much more to the design of a communication system and programming radios than what's on the license. That's a good (less-nefarious sounding) reason that people use lock codes. I've had customers who have employees that like to diddle with their radios if they can. The radio will then stop doing what it's supposed to and end up on my bench or worse. A reputable shop will either give you the code or remove it for you. There are other solutions if they're out of business or won't help.

 

[clbsquared]

Thank you for the input. I do have a copy of our FCC License (I can PM the call sign / File Number if that helps clarify anything. I will work on getting the software and cable for the radio, I need to probably get this anyway as we need to update a few radios to our new assigned frequencies.

I will reach out to @kd4efm as well and see if he can help and provide radios for us.




Thank you for the help, I will work on getting the software and cable (assuming this is the codeplug?). Not sure I can get this done before Christmas as we're mobilizing for a new job and I've been dealing with trailer setup, Tampa Electric, water districts and plumbers.

I will follow up asap.

The CP200d is the easiest cable to obtain. It’s a USB micro (maybe mini). They’re available just about anywhere. Even your towns “corner store”. Just make sure you get the data type cable and not one for just charging. The programming port on that radio is under a small rubber flap on the side of the radio. CPS for it is free through Motorola. Just set up a My View account and request them to give you access to download it.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Trusted radios shops are not just rare in FL, they are like that all over the US, Canada, Africa, Middle East, etc. There is a shortage of knowledgeable techs and a shortage of folks who standup to the sales/admin folks telling everyone to "sell, sell, sell".

You should see the clowns we have here in Alberta.

It is absolutely mind blowing, the number of 'tecknishuns' that are allowed to be putting subscribers and consoles on out provincial trunk system. Most have zero business anywhere near critical public safety infrastructure.