Modification of a Ham Radio

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gewecke

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I want to be very Clear on what I'm about to say! IN AN EMERGENCY, ANYONE! can use whatever means - police radio, ham radio, military radio, last but not least, If I have to fire up the local TV station in an EMERGENCY! to seek help, and that's on any Frequency,that's exactly what I'm going to do. In my 53yrs. of radio, I have NEVER heard of anyone getting arrested, fined, or scrutinized, for making a call for an authentic EMERGENCY!! I want someone to test me on that one.

... Maybe true in Arkansas, but not elsewhere.

73,
n9zas
 

NW7OR

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I've told my response commander that I, as the designated radio officer, am not comfortable with the position he wishes to place me in. I am not a licensed ham operator, which is enough evidence for me not to use the radio, not to add the additional illegalities of the modified radio.

It seems to myself that the best solution to your situation, for the time being anyway, is to unplug the microphone, keep it in a secure place and allow ONLY a licensed amateur radio operator to possess and use it. In fact, as a CYA measure, you may want to consider requiring a copy of the operator's license to be on file before allowing operation.

One thing that folks have not yet mentioned is that you can use any radio, modified or not, to LISTEN ONLY. Never, except as allowed by FCC rules, allow anyone to transmit without an FCC license.

I hope this helps.

73,

Richard, NW7OR
 

W2PMX

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... Maybe true in Arkansas, but not elsewhere.

73,
n9zas
Not true as stated anywhere in the US (or in most countries). There's another thread on this.

As far as the OP, a radio not type-approved (certified) for Part 90 use can not legally be used in Part 90 communications (which is where almost all public service operation is). And a ham radio, operated on ham frequencies (it can't be operated on any other frequencies) must be in control of a licensed (with the appropriate class of license) ham radio operator when it's transmitting. There are no exemptions unless (and this would be up to the FCC for each situation individually) life was in immediate danger and there was no other means of communication possible. The person doing this might still be fined or imprisoned, though - there's no guarantee.
 

k5dxm

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Emergency's

All of those rules go out the Window when there is life threatening circumstance's.The applicable regulations are found in 47 CFR 97.403 and 97.405. They read as follows (emphasis added):
97.403. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.

97.405. (a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention, make known its con dition and location, and obtain assistance.

(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this section, of any means of radio communications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.

There are some who believe these provisions still limit the amateur radio operator to the amateur band, but that's probably because they don't know about 47 CFR 97.111(a)(2) which reads:
97.111(a) An amateur station may transmit the following types of two-way communications:
. . .

(2) Transmissions necessary to exchange messages with a station in another FCC-regulated service while providing emergency communications;

So there you have it. 47 CFR 97.111(a)(2) bestows an amateur station the authority to make the "transmissions necessary to exchange messages with a station in another FCC-regulated service while providing emergency communications." 47 CFR 97.403 and 47 CFR 97.405 define what constitutes an emergency.

In any case, 97.403 and 97.405 specifically state that no part of this (part 97) rule applies in those emergency cases. That means that even without 97.111, the rules limiting amateurs to specific frequencies in 97.301 are not applicable during the emergency situations described in 97.403 and 97.405.

The FCC has always been very clear that one of the primary missions of amateur radio is emergency communications. It seems strange that so many would interpret the rules in a way that contradicts common sense and the very intent of the FCC in establishing the amateur service in the first place.

Will you get in trouble if you hop on to a local police channel to report a crime in progress when you could have used you cell phone? You bet. Will you get in trouble if you hop on to a local police channel to report a man with a gun shooting at people in the park when you have no cell phone and no other immediate means of communication? Probably not. Even if the rules didn't allow it in any way shape or form, would you really decide that saving yourself some trouble with the FCC was worth people's lives? I doubt it.
 

WB4CS

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All of those rules go out the Window when there is life threatening circumstance's.The applicable regulations are found in 47 CFR 97.403 and 97.405. They read as follows (emphasis added):

This is a very old thread, so I apologize for adding to it.

You're forgetting one important thing. Part 97 rules apply only to Part 97 spectrum. That clause in the rules you quoted means a Technician can use Extra Class frequencies in an emergency of life or death. When you get into Part 90 spectrum, Part 90 rules apply and NOT Part 97.

Please see the quoted rules below for Part 90 spectrum:
90.203 Certification required.
(a) Except as specified in paragraphs (b) and (l) of this section, each transmitter utilized for operation under this part and each transmitter marketed as set forth in § 2.803 of this chapter must be of a type which has been certificated for use under this part.

(e) Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, transmitters designed to operate above 25 MHz shall not be certificated for use under this part if the operator can program and transmit on frequencies, other than those programmed by the manufacturer,
service or maintenance personnel, using the equipment’s external operation controls.

and

90.427(b) Except for frequencies used in accordance with § 90.417, no person shall program into a transmitter frequencies for which the licensee using the transmitter is not authorized.

This topic has been beaten to death. See this thread for more info: http://forums.radioreference.com/am...ut-band-transmit-illegal-stupid-question.html My latest post in that thread contains information directly from the FCC on this matter.
 
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k5dxm

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Let's see, your in a taxi cab you can shoot and Kill a Man who is causing bodily harm to another human and you won't be arrested. And your telling me if I had no other radio available to me but the taxi cabs radio, that I would be breaking the law by using the cabs radio to call in a life threatening emergency.
 

WB4CS

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Let's see, your in a taxi cab you can shoot and Kill a Man who is causing bodily harm to another human and you won't be arrested. And your telling me if I had no other radio available to me but the taxi cabs radio, that I would be breaking the law by using the cabs radio to call in a life threatening emergency.


According to the FCC, yes that would be illegal. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done to save a life, but as far as the legality, it's not legal.
 

robertmac

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One of the biggest problems is that radios are easily acquired by clueless people. By clueless I don't mean dumb. They just have NO IDEA of the radio spectrum and the "rules of radio" operations. You just can't buy a radio and program in a frequency without knowledge of the radio spectrum, whether in an emergency or not. If you feel you need to use a radio in an emergency, better to study the ins and outs of radios first. We don't need people going off half cocked and transmitting on emergency frequencies for "their" emergencies. Heaven knows we have far too many abusing 911 call centres for their "emergencies" such as "where do I bury by dead cat".
 

n5ims

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Let's see, your in a taxi cab you can shoot and Kill a Man who is causing bodily harm to another human and you won't be arrested. And your telling me if I had no other radio available to me but the taxi cabs radio, that I would be breaking the law by using the cabs radio to call in a life threatening emergency.

The use of the taxi cab's radio would be perfectly fine to call for help. The taxi company's license would cover your use of that radio during that emergency call. Since that radio was there for the cabbie's use during his normal job, one would presume that it was legally licensed and certified for use during the taxi's normal operation.

What you couldn't do is take your modified ham HT, program in the taxi company's frequency (or by extension, your local PD, FD, or other agency's frequency), and call the dispatcher to report the shooting. The part-97 exception wouldn't be valid since the taxi's radio would be available to make the call (basically since "a normal communication systems was available").
 

W2PMX

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We don't need people going off half cocked and transmitting on emergency frequencies for "their" emergencies. Heaven knows we have far too many abusing 911 call centres for their "emergencies" such as "where do I bury by dead cat".
That's been a problem since long before the 911 system was started. We used to get "emergency calls like "I'm making beef stew and ran out of salt. What can I use instead?" Hey, hubby will be upset if he comes home from a hard day's work and the beef stew is too bland, so it's an emergency. (I actually got a call from a gal who was getting dressed for a "very important date" and couldn't find her shoe. She wanted a female officer to respond, to help her look for it.)
 

N4DES

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I want to be very Clear on what I'm about to say! IN AN EMERGENCY, ANYONE! can use whatever means - police radio, ham radio, military radio, last but not least, If I have to fire up the local TV station in an EMERGENCY! to seek help, and that's on any Frequency,that's exactly what I'm going to do. In my 53yrs. of radio, I have NEVER heard of anyone getting arrested, fined, or scrutinized, for making a call for an authentic EMERGENCY!! I want someone to test me on that one.

Don't forget to spell out completely "United States Department of the Treasury" when writing out the check....

The debate you are referring to, therefore, comes down to “How can we get around the rules?” The answer is, “You can’t.” We will be happy to relieve you of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars and your amateur radio license if you transmit on channels you are not licensed to transmit on.

William Cross

Wireless Telecommunications Bureau
 

gewecke

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Right or wrong aside, You can always skirt or disregard the rules and MAY not even be caught!
But, SOONER or later the dreaded guberment bogey man will get you!
IF you are ALREADY licensed in a radio service here in the U.S. then your chances are far greater, so sure ... go ahead and transmit where ever and when ever you like! We need a bigger club to beat this horse a little harder, since it's not dead yet? :twisted:

73,
n9zas
 

KB7MIB

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The only legal time a Ham radio can be modified & used out of the Ham bands, is when the operator is an authorized MARS station, & uses the radio on MARS frequencies. Any other use is illegal. (The CAP no longer authorizes modified Ham radios to be used.)
 

N4CA

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Interesting thread. As a new ham, I'm curious about something though. All of the discussion has been about hardware modifications and operator licensing. However, one of the rules is that you can't be paid for using amateur radio. Wouldn't that apply in this case as well? Say someone is paid to be the radio operator in the vehicle. Even if they had legal hardware and licensing, aren't they still prohibited from using the amateur bands because they are being paid?

And yes, in a life or death emergency, the rules go out the window. Personally, I don't need the law to tell me that. ;)
 

W2PMX

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Interesting thread. As a new ham, I'm curious about something though. All of the discussion has been about hardware modifications and operator licensing. However, one of the rules is that you can't be paid for using amateur radio. Wouldn't that apply in this case as well? Say someone is paid to be the radio operator in the vehicle. Even if they had legal hardware and licensing, aren't they still prohibited from using the amateur bands because they are being paid?
I get paid, so I guess I can't use my ham gear, right?

No, you can't use ham radio commercially. If a cop keeps a ham portable with him when he's working, and gets on the air with other hams to discuss ham stuff - while he's on the clock being paid - he's legal. (As far as the FCC is concerned. He may be breaking 50 police department rules, though.) If you use an autopatch to order a pizza you're violating the rules, even though you aren't getting paid.
 

n5ims

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Interesting thread. As a new ham, I'm curious about something though. All of the discussion has been about hardware modifications and operator licensing. However, one of the rules is that you can't be paid for using amateur radio. Wouldn't that apply in this case as well? Say someone is paid to be the radio operator in the vehicle. Even if they had legal hardware and licensing, aren't they still prohibited from using the amateur bands because they are being paid?

And yes, in a life or death emergency, the rules go out the window. Personally, I don't need the law to tell me that. ;)

See this from the FCC on a rule change that would allow an employee to participate in training nets by hams that work for organizations that may benefit from that activity. Federal Register, Volume 75 Issue 149 (Wednesday, August 4, 2010)

Current rules provide for amateur radio use during emergencies.
At the same time, the rules prohibit communications in which the
station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest,
including communications on behalf of an employer. While there are some
exceptions to this prohibition, there is none that would permit amateur
station control operators who are employees of public safety agencies
and other entities, such as hospitals, to participate in drills, tests
and exercises in preparation for such emergency situations and transmit
messages on behalf of their employers during such drills and tests.
Accordingly, the Commission amends its rules to provide that, under
certain limited conditions, amateur radio operators may transmit
messages during emergency and disaster preparedness drills and
exercises, limited to the duration of such drills and exercises,
regardless of whether the operators are employees of entities
participating in the drills or exercises.

(Note, emphasis added to the quote below)
The Commission's rules expressly permit operation of amateur
stations for public service communications during emergencies, and on a
voluntary basis during drills and exercises in preparation for such
emergencies. Given, however, that the Amateur Radio Service is
primarily designated for ``amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons
interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without
pecuniary interest,'' the rules expressly prohibit amateur stations
from transmitting communications ``in which the station licensee or
control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on
behalf of an employer.'' Accordingly, public safety and public health
entities seeking to have employees operate amateur stations during
government-sponsored emergency preparedness and disaster drills
presently must request a waiver. In this connection, Commission staff
has granted several waivers on a case-by case basis.

The change was made to allow a narrow exception to make this legal in certain specific instances for a narrow group if individuals:
A station licensee or control station operator may participate
on behalf of an employer in an emergency preparedness or disaster
readiness test or drill, limited to the duration and scope of such test
or drill, and operational testing immediately prior to such test or
drill. Tests or drills that are not government-sponsored are limited to
a total time of one hour per week; except that no more than twice in
any calendar year, they may be conducted for a period not to exceed 72
hours.
 
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N4CA

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See this from the FCC on a rule change that would allow an employee to participate in training nets by hams that work for organizations that may benefit from that activity. Federal Register, Volume 75 Issue 149 (Wednesday, August 4, 2010)



(Note, emphasis added to the quote below)


The change was made to allow a narrow exception to make this legal in certain specific instances for a narrow group if individuals:

Ok, that makes sense. So essentially, the ham gear may be used during an emergency, so they can also use it to prepare for an emergency. But they don't use it for day to day operations.

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N4CA

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I get paid, so I guess I can't use my ham gear, right?

No, you can't use ham radio commercially. If a cop keeps a ham portable with him when he's working, and gets on the air with other hams to discuss ham stuff - while he's on the clock being paid - he's legal. (As far as the FCC is concerned. He may be breaking 50 police department rules, though.) If you use an autopatch to order a pizza you're violating the rules, even though you aren't getting paid.

I see what you're saying, but that's not the situation I was wondering about.

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