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Monitering the ARMER

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kb0nly

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I was using an Astro Spectra before i got a hold of a used scanner.
 

mmtstc

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I use an APX6000 to monitor... when I am at work.

There actually was q very interesting thread a couple months ago about how to monitor a 9600 baud system like ARMER without actually being a subscriber. I can't remember where I saw it though...

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
 

kb0uxv

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That is very dangerous if you do not know what you are doing. Legal issues aside, if you affiliate with a radio ID, the user with the ID you cloned will have their talkgroup audio - including TX - slaved to what you have selected. So when they call for help on their main they actually talk on what TG you are listening to. A scanner would be a better choice unless you understand the relationship between CPS, a 9600 trunking system, and network management.

Furthermore, with the radio you are restricted to making changes with your PC. The scanner is more flexible.
 

n9upc

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Land of mixed mode digital comms
I would say more importantly read the SRB website and you will see that if you do what you are asking you can, and I would most likely say, be charged with a felony.

I would suggest a scanner also as you can program them to whatever you would like as well as not cost as mush as using a two-way radio.
 
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kb0nly

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That is very dangerous if you do not know what you are doing. Legal issues aside, if you affiliate with a radio ID, the user with the ID you cloned will have their talkgroup audio - including TX - slaved to what you have selected. So when they call for help on their main they actually talk on what TG you are listening to. A scanner would be a better choice unless you understand the relationship between CPS, a 9600 trunking system, and network management.

Furthermore, with the radio you are restricted to making changes with your PC. The scanner is more flexible.
Radio never affiliated, nor could it. Transmit totally disabled internally by removing and modifying. The post mmtstc refers to was started by me. We hashed out the details and got a Astro Spectra to scan the system with the conventional scan trick that many have discussed here and on other forums.
 

kb0uxv

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If you spend enough time asking around on these boards, or other online locations, you will eventually find someone who will teach you how to do what you seek. For the most part those “teachers” have no understanding of the system side of trunked systems, and could care less about the safety of the users, or are too ignorant to know the consequences.

Before you consider researching this further, please review Minnesota statutes:

609.776
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.776

609.891 (ARMER is a computer network, a key is needed to access it legaly)
https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=609.891

609.78
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.78
 
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kb0nly

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I would say more importantly read the SRB website and you will see that if you do what you are asking you can, and I would most likely say, be charged with a felony.

I would suggest a scanner also as you can program them to whatever you would like as well as not cost as mush as using a two-way radio.
If one knows what they are doing, and thats the largest stumbling block here, monitoring with a radio isn't that big of a deal. Now before the RR police step in and start flaming....

1. Radio must be disabled for transmit, and i don't mean just turning it down in software, i physically disabled the transmit on a couple Astro Spectra's, removing the PA and exciter stages, grounding out the input to the exciter stage, no detectable rf output with testing equipment.

2. You will be limited in your scanning ability... A scanner is so much better, but if you need to monitor a handful of talkgroups then it works good. But you can't scan a ton of talkgroups. You could conventional scan the voice frequencies and basically just have a basic scanner that doesn't require any trickery other than putting in some receive frequencies, no trunk track, if you didn't mind that, but trunk tracking with a real radio is more complicated.

As for Cost.... A good used P25 scanner is in the $300-$400 range. I can pick up an Astro Spectra for $100 or even less. The last two i had i got free for the asking. However, you have to have the programming equipment/software and knowledge to make it all work, and that cost can exceed the savings. In my case i made due with what i had until a good deal on a used scanner came along.

We will see this question more and more because of all the cheap used radios flooding the market.
 
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kb0nly

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If you spend enough time asking around on these boards, or other online locations, you will eventually find someone who will teach you how to do what you seek. For the most part those “teachers” have no understanding of the system side of trunked systems, and could care less about the safety of the users, or are too ignorant to know the consequences.

Before you consider researching this further, please review Minnesota statutes:

609.776
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.776

609.891 (ARMER is a computer network, a key is needed to access it legaly)
https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=609.891

609.78
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.78
True... But that doesn't stop someone from taking the simple route. I know plenty that scan ARMER using Astro Spectra's and just put in the voice frequencies for their local tower leaving the control channel out or programming them all in and having the radio set for user selectable lockout, that way if the control channel changes you can make a quick change as well. Sure its not trunk tracking, but they still hear the traffic. However the effectiveness of this method will change in time. Down here we basically only hear state patrol and DOT on ARMER. A few counties have migrated but one can scan it conventionally and go hours without any activity until a SP unit wanders in.
 

KD0NDO

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May 25, 2009
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337
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otsego,mn
i was thinking of getting a 2500 and programming the voice channels with a selective squelch and use the tlkgrp. i have scene it done. and i know how and what i am doing
 

KD0NDO

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otsego,mn
Radio never affiliated, nor could it. Transmit totally disabled internally by removing and modifying. The post mmtstc refers to was started by me. We hashed out the details and got a Astro Spectra to scan the system with the conventional scan trick that many have discussed here and on other forums.
can i get a link to that post please
 

kb0uxv

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Oct 22, 2009
Messages
216
Location
Minnesota
I thought you said you knew what you were doing :)

You should also read this thread:
http://forums.radioreference.com/motorola-forum/200563-programing-trunked-radio-monitoring-only.html

It goes in circles some times, but there is some good information there. I learned some stuff from that thread. When it started, I did not believe there was a way to monitor without affiliating. That came from training and experience on the system side. Conventional scan seems safe, but as kb0nly pointed out, it will not track well on a busy site. Also, from what I understand, if you set up conventional TGs within the personality it will only un-mute on the first TG on the list.

I suppose you could test this method before you put the money in the radio. Maybe set up a custom scan list in your current scanner with just your local site voice channels, P25 mode, NAC $f7e (or open digital CSQ) and see how it goes.

You should also consider what may happen if you take a 2500 portable in public that is opening up to the local talkgroups, you may be asked questions. Most locals use that model, they may assume it is a lost or stolen radio.
 
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