Morris county TRS

[katt02]

Hi all,

I am wondering if the database is wrong or if there is a problem with my setup. I am trying to monitor the MIRS system and the database says it is phase 1, but I have heard of people saying it is a combination phase 1+2. I am attempting to use dsd+ to decode the audio streams and it is not working well. I only get about half of the transmissions if that. I have unitrunker running to find the right channel and dsd says it’s trying to decode but t just dosent work and I have very strong signal.

Basically, is the system phase 1 or a mix of both?

Thanks, katt

 

[GTR8000]

The Morris County system is 100% FDMA (Phase I)

 

[Murenovich]

Its Phase 1 for now. They are testing out Phase 2 on the 700Mhz spectrum for their upgrade in the next 1-2 years. When they switch over itll be full time Phase 2 700MHz. All the subscribers in the county will have their current radios swapped out for TDMA capable radios at no extra cost. This has actually been the plan for them for the past few years. When they switched from the Zoned Trunking System to the Simulcast system they started looking into the 700MHz band and upgrading to Phase 2. They've always had issues when the weather gets warm out with ridiculous Interference out of a TV Station in VA that renders the system useless, so all the units switch over to UTAC-7.

Testing has begun on one site supposedly at the county communications center but I haven't personally seen anything yet.

 

[katt02]

Interesting, From what I had heard the system was currently a phase 1 and 2 mix. I also have not been able to decode some of the digital channels with dsd+ despite excellent signal. I had heard of the plan to move to 700 if the t-band was reallocated, however through my listening to the radios I have not seen any interference from a tv station. Could you tell me more about that?

 

[Murenovich]

Interesting, From what I had heard the system was currently a phase 1 and 2 mix. I also have not been able to decode some of the digital channels with dsd+ despite excellent signal. I had heard of the plan to move to 700 if the t-band was reallocated, however through my listening to the radios I have not seen any interference from a tv station. Could you tell me more about that?

Happens every single summer, usually the first few humid mornings, you don't hear anything on the radio if ur monitoring the system it just knocks out the control channel and it gives the users the "Out of Range" message on their radios. The system is only in Phase 1 mode. I have always had issues with DSD+ on this system as well as any scanner that is plagued with LSM issues and I live within 3 miles of a site. I get it perfectly on my SDS100 tho.

 

[GTR8000]

For LSM systems like Morris, you want to be using the latest version of DSD+ Fast Lane with two dongles, using FMP24 as the tuner for both control and voice. That is the optimized setup for simulcast P25 with DSD+. If you're using an external program like SDR# to tune the dongles, you're going to get subpar results. FMP24 feeding DSD+ via TCP is the optimized method of dealing with LSM.

 

[katt02]

ok. I have not been using fastlane, and I am unaware of FMP24, but I will look into it. I have been using unitrunker to decode the control channel and it has been working well in that sense. I will do some further research. If you have any other helpful tips that are off topic feel free to send me a message. Thanks!

 

[GTR8000]

The frustrating part about simulcast systems, aka LSM (Linear Simulcast Modulation) in Motorola speak, is that the strength of the signal is not always the defining factor in good reception. In fact, often times the stronger the signal, the worse the problem with multipath issues. If you happen to be within range of multiple subsites (individual physical sites that make up the simulcast cell), you're going to be receiving signal that are slightly out of phase. Most scanners and SDR software are not equipped to deal with this condition, and so decode suffers greatly even when the signal is very strong.

The latest versions of DSD+ Fast Lane were optimized to handle LSM issues when using their own FMP24 tuner to control RTL dongles. I would suggest subscribing to Fast Lane (details can be found at the end of the DSD+ 1.101 help file), making sure you have two of those RTL dongles, then search this site for the many posts detailing how to get FMP24 and DSD+ up and running on a P25 system. Note that FMP24 is included with Fast Lane, it's not a separate program you're going to find anywhere else.

 

[GTR8000]

They are testing out Phase 2 on the 700Mhz spectrum for their upgrade in the next 1-2 years.

Testing has begun on one site supposedly at the county communications center but I haven't personally seen anything yet.

It's unlikely that they have any 700 MHz test site on the air yet. The system would have to broadcast the 700/800 MHz band plan if such a site were active, which it is not. No adjacent site info being broadcast, either. And of course, I haven't sniffed any 700 MHz signals coming out of Morris County aside from the NJICS sites, nor has anyone else mentioned anything, for that matter.

Perhaps you're confusing Morris with Bergen? They have a test site on 700 MHz operational at Stag Hill.

 

[Murenovich]

Nope definitely not confusing it with Bergen. Like I said supposedly they are testing but I haven’t personally seen anything myself. They apparently are aiming for early-mid 2021 changeover but again this is all information I’ve heard through my contacts at county and I haven’t seen anything official I only know what they’ve told me and what’s been told to multiple communications officers in the county.

 

[W2SJW]

Nope definitely not confusing it with Bergen. Like I said supposedly they are testing but I haven’t personally seen anything myself. They apparently are aiming for early-mid 2021 changeover but again this is all information I’ve heard through my contacts at county and I haven’t seen anything official I only know what they’ve told me and what’s been told to multiple communications officers in the county.

This is correct, although I'm not at liberty to divulge anything else at this point (still very early in the plan's stages).

 

[GTR8000]

I'm always happy to take Scott's word for it and leave well enough alone.

 

[RocketNJ]

Murenovich, you are wrong. There are NO 700 MHz sites up, nor are there any being constructed.

 

[KDD904]

The only 700 testing done by Morris has been on PSIC.

 

[GTR8000]

Murenovich, you are wrong. There are NO 700 MHz sites up, nor are there any being constructed.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Since I answered the OP's question, and the misguided speculation about a secret 700 site has been put to rest, I think we're done here!

 

[NotATechGuy]

If you do some research you can find their build-out schedule for the new 700mhz system. I've omitted the header with names and address's.

 

[GTR8000]

If you do some research you can find their build-out schedule for the new 700mhz system. I've omitted the header with names and address's.

That document was filed in 2014, calling for a 4 year period from the time the licenses were granted in 2016 until the 700 MHz simulcast cell would be on the air with subscribers. Their buildout deadline is February 2020, which is obviously not going to be met given that no sites have been constructed by this point. The county is going to have to file a request for extension at some point within the next few months in order to retain those licenses.

Morris County, like the other counties/agencies in the region who operate on T-Band, are in limbo due to the potential T-Band giveback. Many have licensed 700 MHz spectrum in order to safeguard against the loss of their current T-Band frequencies. The reality of the situation is that many of them are holding off on migrating to 700 MHz until the giveback either goes ahead as currently mandated, or the legislation gets repealed.

A wait-and-see attitude is prudent, as there are massive cost factors involved in such a migration, and there is no guarantee that any funds from spectrum auctions will be provided to those who voluntarily abandon T-Band early.

 

[NotATechGuy]

If you check the license's there are current documents with updated documents that were filed. Don't believe all the misdirection.

 

[GTR8000]

If you check the license's there are current documents with updated documents that were filed. Don't believe all the misdirection.

I'm not sure what "misdirection" you're referring to. In addition to whatever you're looking at with the licenses that is publicly available, I've seen all that and more, believe me.

 

[RocketNJ]

Why would Morris County start building 700 MHz sites on their dime at this point? There is a bill introduced to rescind the T-Band giveback. Also after the auction of T-Band there ***MAY*** be funding to offset the move. If they build sites now they will not get reimbursed.

So my comment stands - there are NO 700 MHz sites installed or under construction.