Moto MTS/MTX question

[PoPoRadio]

Greetings guys.

Im a reserve police officer and was issued a Motorola radio coded for the city services (PD, and sub depts, Fire, as well as regional comms etc). The radio i was issued, as i understand it, is a "Jedi Series" B3 style radio. The front of the radio is labeled just "MTX" and the product id tag on the radio, in the battery well lists the model as an MTS2000. I know it to be a 800mhz range radio based off the recent radio updates (coding radios with officers names).

Since we are reserves we get what evers left around, and often are lucky if we get anything at all. Because of that the Dept is OK with us providing our own radios to be coded by our Comm guys for service. A few guys have purchased radios online, re purposed radios from other services or departments, but some have no radio and have to borrow one from the few at the station.

Im interested in purchasing my own (used) radio and will of course get more details from our Comm guys as to any specifics. This will allow me to hopefully find a smaller/lighter, and also free up a radio for another officers use.

My question is what are comparable, smaller models to the Jedi series that would be with in the same technologies ( hence likely to work with our system and be older and available used... read as cheap.) and, preferably, share shoulder mic adapters. I would like to stay with Motorola, due both to Dept and personal preferences.


I apologize in advance as i know nothing about radios other than how to turn it on, and annoy dispatch by summarizing back to them what they just told me... so there's no more "miscommunications" for me to take the heat for. I understand some of you know radio models like the back of your hand, and it may seem like im asking you to answer what i could google. But again. On, Off, PTT, Officer Down Button.


-PoPo

 

[mmckenna]

I've worked with 800MHz MTS2000's on a trunked radio system. What I can tell you is to talk to the radio techs in your department BEFORE you purchase anything. If the 800MHz system your department uses is trunked, you will need a specific firmware profile in the radio. The MTS2000's were available in different bands, different models and different firmware loads. If the firmware in the radio you buy isn't the right one, your radio won't work on your departments system. Sometimes it's possible to adjust the programming to make up for this, sometimes it isn't. For my system, I had prebuilt files for all the different groups that used the trunked system. I could take one of those files, change the ID numbers and dump it into the radio fairly easily. If the radio didn't have the right firmware load, it wouldn't work. If I had time, I could build a new file for the radio, if it would do the correct trunking. This can be time consuming.
If your department isn't using a trunked system, then this won't be a problem, but you need to find out by talking to the radio guys.
There may be other functions that the radio will need to have either way, so you really need to figure this out before you spend YOUR money and ask the radio guys to program it.
I had a guy that was trying to save money and kept buying used radios off e-Bay. He didn't understand this and he wouldn't let us tell him about it (he was SOOO much smarter than us radio guys!). He kept bringing these radios into me for programming and often I'd have to turn him away. After about 4 radios he finally started listening to us.

For other radios that would work on the system, that all depends on what kind of system it is.

If it's standard 800 MHz conventional, then you could use a few different brands. Some of the newer radios are smaller than the MTS-2000's.
If it is trunked, then you will be limited to Motorola or EF Johnson, maybe a few others. The Motorola MotoTrbo radios are smaller, but they have some frequency limitations that won't let them work with all systems.

Here is what you should do:
Talk directly with the radio guy for your department BEFORE you do anything. Tell him/her what you want to do and ask for their help. Likely they will help you out and make some suggestions. Most radio guys really love what they do and often have their own private radios themselves. You may find that he can point you in a specific direction of where to look, what to look for and what you should be willing to pay.

 

[PoPoRadio]

mmckenna

Thanks for the detailed response. I will absolutely get more info from our guys before i make any purchases, as the last thing i need is more gear taking up space. I was just hoping it wasnt as complicated as it all seemed. But it sounds like it is.

 

[mmckenna]

It may not be too complicated. Trying to cover all the possibilities made it pretty chock full of info.

If you don't mind posting which department you belong to, that might help us give you more detailed info.

 

[IAmSixNine]

If your looking for a smaller radio ask your comm guys if the MTX8250 will work on the system.
Its not a bad little radio. I used one for a brief time prior to rebanding. I liked the size, RF sensitivity and the speaker on it was great.

 

[KE4ZNR]

mmckenna

Thanks for the detailed response. I will absolutely get more info from our guys before i make any purchases, as the last thing i need is more gear taking up space. I was just hoping it wasnt as complicated as it all seemed. But it sounds like it is.

Also ask them if the radio system will be upgraded any time in the near future.
We have some MTS2000's on our city radio system that will have to be upgraded once we
upgrade the radio system software to a newer version. There are a long list of radios that will not work once a radio system has its system software upgraded.
I would hate for you to buy a radio then have it become obsolete a few months down the line.
Marshall KE4ZNR

 

[PoPoRadio]

Everyone

Thanks for the advice. At this time im going to withhold my Dept info ( what can i say, i can be paranoid) how ever i will keep you updated as to what style of system we do use when i find out. We have an event coming up where i will likely see the Comm guy and will ask for more info.

I appreciate the heads up on the posibility of the Dept updating thier system. I didnt even think of that and the last thing i need is outdated gear and unnessesary expenses. I will inquire about the mtx8250, id does look alot smaller. Il do some research when i get back to a pc.

Thanks again

 

[RKG]

If your looking for a smaller radio ask your comm guys if the MTX8250 will work on the system.
Its not a bad little radio. I used one for a brief time prior to rebanding. I liked the size, RF sensitivity and the speaker on it was great.

MTX8250 will not do rebanding and, according to the Programmer's Guide, cannot be upgraded to do rebanding.

 

[mmckenna]

The 800MHz MotoTrbo radios are the only low priced option I know of. They'll do Type 2 trunking, but will NOT do the NPSPAC channels, they are specifically blocked.

This won't really matter, unless the department is running a type 2 system. If it's conventional, it'll be fairly easy to find something that will work, will be smaller than an MTS2K and will be cheaper.

 

[IAmSixNine]

MTX8250 will not do rebanding and, according to the Programmer's Guide, cannot be upgraded to do rebanding.

I know an MTX8250 will not reband, but reading his original email he didnt provide a model number and mentioned a MTX Jedi B3 style radio and perhaps its an MTS2000.. So its either an MTX B3 or a top display MTS2000 with the wrong case..

There are still odler systems out there where an MTX B3 still works. If thats the case then a MTX8250 will still work.

Either way size wise your not going to get to much smaller. Id be more concerned about putting money into a radio on a system that might be upgraded sooner rather then later.
If thats the case an XTS2500 or 1500 is needed...

 

[N4KVE]

If it is an older system, I'd stay with the Jedi series, as in my personal experience the MTS/MTX Jedi radio is far superior & more rugged than the MTX8250 Waris radio. Don't buy a current radio until you know what your gov't will be changing to. GARY N4KVE

 

[PoPoRadio]

I know an MTX8250 will not reband, but reading his original email he didnt provide a model number and mentioned a MTX Jedi B3 style radio and perhaps its an MTS2000.. So its either an MTX B3 or a top display MTS2000 with the wrong case..

There are still odler systems out there where an MTX B3 still works. If thats the case then a MTX8250 will still work.

Either way size wise your not going to get to much smaller. Id be more concerned about putting money into a radio on a system that might be upgraded sooner rather then later.
If thats the case an XTS2500 or 1500 is needed...

The label on the front of the radio, at the bottem of the speaker area says " MTX" no model number indicated. If i remove the battery and look at the fcc approved sticker on the radio, not the battery, it says "MTS2000 Handie-Talkie FM radio" "model h01ucf6pw18n" a serial number. "Type ucka" and a Doc/mdc number. If any of that helps. Im not sure if this is an mtx ot mts. It has no display screen of any kind. 16 channels with analog switch a b and c settings. Orange officer down button on top. Ptt on side below a green-blue un used button(unused by us) and two verticle round buttons.

 

[RKG]

I know an MTX8250 will not reband, but reading his original email he didnt provide a model number and mentioned a MTX Jedi B3 style radio and perhaps its an MTS2000.. So its either an MTX B3 or a top display MTS2000 with the wrong case..

There are still odler systems out there where an MTX B3 still works. If thats the case then a MTX8250 will still work.

Either way size wise your not going to get to much smaller. Id be more concerned about putting money into a radio on a system that might be upgraded sooner rather then later.
If thats the case an XTS2500 or 1500 is needed...

An MTX8250 (or, for that matter, a Model B MT2000, will work post-rebanding so long as the system does not employ any voice channels on the "new" channels, but over time that is a gamble, which is why I wouldn't recommend an 8250 for a new purchase.

 

[MTS2000des]

the model number the OP gave is SUPPOSED to be a limited keypad MTS2000, but it's likely a parts built radio, without reading it in CPS/RSS, it's hard to say what it actually is. It's possible to put a non-keypad front cover on a display Jedi and it will work.

If your agency is using MTS2000 radios, and there are NO PLANS in the immediate future to upgrade the system to P25, than I would just buy an 800MHz MTS2000. They are plentiful, cheap and then you would have compatible batteries and audio accessories with what your agency has. Just be sure the radio is a 512K version, ask the seller to give you the firmware version of the radio, real MTS2000's come in top display, limited keypad and full keypad versions. All of them can display their firmware version by pressing the 2nd button above the PTT five times in a row within 10 seconds of power up.

The model number, serial number, firmware version (usually expressed as R0x.xx) and Flashcode (feature set string) are displayed in series. It is STRONGLY recommened you talk to your radio support people to find out what kind of system you use: conventional 800, Smartnet I, Smartnet II/IIi or Smartzone. This will tell you what feature package your radio needs to have. Any 512K MTS2000 will have a F/W version HIGHER than 5.xx. Avoid anything that was made before June of 1993. Current MTS2000 firmware is R08.73, R08.71 is where re-banding support was added.

I would NOT use an MTX8250 for a duty radio on a Smartnet system, aside from the fact that it will not support rebanded tables, it also doesn't support Smartnet feature set, which may be important for a public safety user. MTX8250s do not support Smartzone operation either. They are Privacy Plus radio designed for Privacy Plus trunking systems, and lack features such as dynamic regrouping, emergency call, failsoft by talkgroup, etc.

You can find re-banded 800MHz MTS2000's all over Ebay for $80-200 depending on who is selling them. I'd go that route, AFTER you talk to your radio support people and find out WHAT kind of system you have and if they plan to support it in the near future or replace it with something else. When buying MTS2000's, you also have to know if your system is Smartnet or Smartzone, your radio has to have the appropriate software on it to support Smartzone if that is what you are on.

 

[JRayfield]

You might want to keep in mind that the MTS2000 has been long-discontinued by Motorola, including support. In other words, if it breaks, Motorola won't fix it anymore (at any price). So, if a local shop can't repair one, then it's a 'throw-away'.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM

 

[MTS2000des]

You might want to keep in mind that the MTS2000 has been long-discontinued by Motorola, including support. In other words, if it breaks, Motorola won't fix it anymore (at any price). So, if a local shop can't repair one, then it's a 'throw-away'.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM

Motorola has ramped up on ending support for many products. Sadly, Smartnet customers are being forced to buy Astro 25 radios (flashed for analog only) if they want NEW radios.

The OP wants to use a personal radio, and despite Motorola abadoning depot support for the Jedi series, there are still plenty of shops and self-maintained customers that can service them. At the low price they are selling for, they are fine if an end user has a compatible system and doesn't want to spend hundreds on a used Astro 25 portable.

Just because Motorola stops providing depot support does NOT mean parts support will go away. I still see parts for MX series radios on MOL, they may cost, but they are STILL being sold in 2012. These radios were last made when Bush Sr. was just taking office!

 

[PJH]

The Jedi series also has a known to have a problem with the front displays. Some last forever, some not so long and the dot's in the dot matrix start to disappear.

Personally I'd look at the XTS2500's if you really want a smaller radio. Still somewhat current (the BN models) and will have a longer support life. They can be found (realitively) inexpensive for what they are and all sorts of accessories are plentiful.

I still use my ASTRO saber at work and love it with the normal battery. If you are still size aware, you can always get a short battery which makes it really no bigger than the current stuff.

As a reserve, I don't know your duty cycle on duty or actual use as some reserves are actual 8/12 hour on duty commissioned police officers while others are actually non-commissioned kinda ride along's/traffic directors.

If more towards the first, I'd shoot for the XTS series radios with the standard battery. If towards the second example, a MTS2000 would be a better fit.

 

[PoPoRadio]

We are sworn officers. Our shifts are 4 to 16 hours and anywhere imbetween. Could be a 4 hour detail or road job or doubles back to back for 2 weeks. Depends on the job, your availability, how much you want to put into it and the time of year and the depts needs.

I would like a battery to last at a minimum 12 hours. My current mtx/mts franken radio will do 12 hours. That said im not opposed to getting a spare battery if needed.

Still havent gotten in touch with our comm guy. Right nows a slow period so i wont likely be in till the end of the month