Motorola Radio Management for Large Fleet

[jthorpe]

I am the lead programmer for a large public safety agency and we are currently using CPS for all of our radios. I'm responsible for approximately 7500 radios spread out across the state. In order to make changes, especially when programming several hundred at a time, we have to travel often. So do the users. It's expensive and time consuming.

I've read some of the older threads about Radio Management. Some are 2016-2018. In may of 2019, are we still looking at the same issues? Is firmware still an issue where multiple codeplugs need to be built?

Even if we don't go wireless, which we wont; I can at least setup programming stations across the state for our users to connect to. I would just like some feedback from people who are using radio management currently. More specifically with large, spread out fleets. Any feedback on your experiences would be greatly appreciated.

 

[xmo]

Motorola has made some changes in their RM offering. It started as a buy it once pricing model. Now they are migrating RM to a recurring cost service based product. You should check with your sales rep to see if you can live with the new pricing.

Also, with the original product you set up your own local RM server and path all your remote device programmers to that (sometimes that can be a challenge).

Now the call that "on-prem". They now also offer a cloud based RM server. That might make it easier for you to set up the device programmers over a wide area.

 

[jthorpe]

Thanks for the info. I've been in touch with them and I'm waiting on a demo for now. Hopefully that will happen in the next few weeks.

 

[Firebuff880]

Ah. Jim what flavor of radios ? MOTOTRBO or Public Safety ??

 

[jthorpe]

APX series

 

[kv6o]

We've looked at it, and I think we'll see it in our future, esp. with the parts of the fleet that are all APX. However, still can't remotely tune, so you still have to touch your fleet periodically... Are you looking at OTAP/OTAR as well?

 

[ILMRadioMan]

I can tell you that full blown RM with both OTAP and WIFI programming is a saving grace in large systems. I've been involved with a county system that is 3000+ radios using full, on-prem (local) RM, and it has saved some butts more times than can be counted. It was available during the transition onto the system, and corrections were made on the fly to mitigate serious issues.

For the size of fleet you stated, I would say it's going to be a huge help to you.

 

[jthorpe]

We've looked at it, and I think we'll see it in our future, esp. with the parts of the fleet that are all APX. However, still can't remotely tune, so you still have to touch your fleet periodically... Are you looking at OTAP/OTAR as well?

At this time we are not looking at OTAP or OTAR. As an initial rollout, we would probably activate 10 or so programming stations strategically placed around the state, to cute the drive down for users from 100+ miles to hopefully less than 50. If it works well, then add to the system in phases.

 

[jthorpe]

I can tell you that full blown RM with both OTAP and WIFI programming is a saving grace in large systems. I've been involved with a county system that is 3000+ radios using full, on-prem (local) RM, and it has saved some butts more times than can be counted. It was available during the transition onto the system, and corrections were made on the fly to mitigate serious issues.

For the size of fleet you stated, I would say it's going to be a huge help to you.

Thanks for the info. I'm also thinking it would. It's a tough fleet to manage as it currently stands but we are doing it. I would just like to see our travel time cut down, along with the user. When making a major change or updating another system for our interop stuff, such as a type II upgrading to P25 etc, it would be a lot easier to push out those updates then travel to 10 counties and do the radios one by one. Not only that but with a fleet this large, it's difficult to manage the aliases when transfers or moves occur. Having RM would allow me to simply push a new plug out, then use RM for my alias database even if we have to export then import into the zone controller.

 

[jthorpe]

Funny thing. I wasn't a fan of APX when they first came out. I actually hated them. That was until I found out how easy they are to program compared to the XTS / XTL series. Now if I can just get my firmware and flash codes updated to match. whew!!!

 

[wa8pyr]

Funny thing. I wasn't a fan of APX when they first came out. I actually hated them. That was until I found out how easy they are to program compared to the XTS / XTL series. Now if I can just get my firmware and flash codes updated to match. whew!!!

Agree on the easier to program part, except for two little things. . .

1. That scrolling window within a scrolling window nonsense. Massive PITA.
2. The call lists. Can't just put numbers and alias names into a list anymore; now you have to create a contact and add it to a hot list. Even more massive PITA.

I'm guessing whoever wrote the APX CPS doesn't do a lot of radio programming.

 

[ILMRadioMan]

Additionally, another benefit of RM is the ability to put non-technical people into good use.

With RM, you can build a codeplug and queue it. If it's a big codeplug (perhaps voice files, big changes, etc) you can get someone with an RM client on a laptop with a connection back to the RM server (vpn or direct network). This will allow you to utilize high bandwidth broadband connection to push big changes simply by having a person with a laptop.

This can be exceptionally useful if the apx radios don't have access to a common wifi AP (ap, but the laptop can connect through a hotspot, then a VPN to the RM server.

 

[MTS2000des]

RM is great IF you have all MSI APX radios. If you have other vendor's radios on your system, or legacy subscribers (XTL/XTS), you're hosed.

 

[ILMRadioMan]

I mean, your point is valid, but perhaps the best way to word it is: it is only useful with apx. Just because you have other radios on the system, doesn't mean it isn't worth it.

If you have large groups of MSI radios, it came definitely be worth it, even if other departments use other vendors.

 

[Thunderknight]

We use it for a few hundred APX radios. Internally hosted with WiFi APs spread around, all on it's own VLAN and SSID. Love it. Turned what used to be an arduous task of updating radios to something that takes far less time. Worth every cent in labor savings.

I can't answer your firmware question...I have not run into that yet (we don't jump on the latest FW), but I did read that too.

 

[ILMRadioMan]

You CAN push firmware and flash updates over RM. The only thing you can't do is tune a radio, although there are tools that can tell you when a radio is out of tune, by measuring over the air.

 

[TampaTyron]

I setup MOTOTRBO RM systems and train system managers in the use of RM almost weekly. It is a saving grace. I would recommend VPN or at least your own VLAn for all device programmers. We have used windows tablets, industrial PCs, regular PCs, and laptops as device programmers without issue. You would basically train a few admin people at each location in connecting and running device programmer/device monitor software. I would stay away from the kiosk approach where just anyone can walk up and start connecting stuff to the DP. Your network will need to be capable of multicast from the the DP to the radio (which should be fine if you are using programming cables, more of an issue if using WiFi). Once you use it, you won't go back. My largest customer has 22k radios....... TT

 

[MTS2000des]

The only thing you can't do is tune a radio, although there are tools that can tell you when a radio is out of tune, by measuring over the air.

We have two DiagnostX boxes we cycle around on our RF subsites. Very effective at identifying what subs need to be PM'ed.

 

[kv6o]

We do the same with Diagnostx, but only have one of the older models. The newer ones can have multiple slave receivers.

 

[ILMRadioMan]

We have two DiagnostX boxes we cycle around on our RF subsites. Very effective at identifying what subs need to be PM'ed.

They are fantastic, and worth every penny.