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MOTOTRBO XPR-7550 Repeater Programming

Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
9
Location
Bowling Green KY
#1
Hi everyone,

I hope this particular issue hasn't been talked about but I couldn't find anything after hours of searching.... but anyway...

So recently my company purchased its own repeater system to run dispatching through for the company's security division. I was tasked with programming these Motorola MOTOTRBO XPR-7550 radios seeing as I'm the only one with and radio programming experience but it's extremely limited...

I'm attempting to program several Motorola MOTOTRBO XPR-7550 radios to work with our very old Kenwood TKR-820 repeater.

For the sake of security, let's pretend the frequencies we are using on the repeater and radios are in the GMRS band.

We have the radios programmed (In Theory) to the following information:
Tx Frequency- 467.637500
Rx Frequency- 467.662500
CSQ Carrier Squelch
and no Quick-Call II Signaling System

Our Kenwood TKR-820 is set to the following (In Theory)
TX Frequency- 467.662500
RX Frequency- 467.637500
No QT, DQT or DQT (Inverted) signaling type

In theory, shouldn't this type of system with these parameters work? Our system is setup the same (just different frequencies) and the radios are set to analog channels. The repeater shows the correct programming and the radios show the correct programming but they aren't working.

I'm not familiar with what QT, DQT and DQT (Inverted) are or how to program that into the radios. I figured out how to do it on the repeater but sadly the MOTOTRBO software doesn't seem to have an option for those.

Any and all help, advice or comments regarding this issue would be appreciated.
 

W9BU

Lead Wiki Manager
Super Moderator
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
5,633
Location
Brownsburg, Indiana
#2
I don't have a specific answer to your question, but I do have some comments.

I don't think your frequencies are correct. Repeaters in the UHF (450-470 MHz) portion of the band typically have a 5 MHz (5000 kHz) offset between input and output. In other words, the repeater will listen on, let's say, 467.6375 MHz and transmit on 462.6375 MHz. The transmit and receive pair you quote have an offset of 25 kHz. I doubt that your repeater is operating on a pair with that small of an offset.

The TKR-820 is an old repeater that was made before the FCC mandated narrowband FM. I have heard rumors that the TKR-820 can be reconfigured for narrowband, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's possible. If the repeater has not been narrowbanded, you could be operating outside FCC rules.

Final comment, the frequencies you mention are assigned to the Family Radio Service (FRS). I'm not sure that repeaters are allowed in FRS.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
9
Location
Bowling Green KY
#3
I don't have a specific answer to your question, but I do have some comments.

I don't think your frequencies are correct. Repeaters in the UHF (450-470 MHz) portion of the band typically have a 5 MHz (5000 kHz) offset between input and output. In other words, the repeater will listen on, let's say, 467.6375 MHz and transmit on 462.6375 MHz. The transmit and receive pair you quote have an offset of 25 kHz. I doubt that your repeater is operating on a pair with that small of an offset.

The TKR-820 is an old repeater that was made before the FCC mandated narrowband FM. I have heard rumors that the TKR-820 can be reconfigured for narrowband, but I'm not 100% convinced that it's possible. If the repeater has not been narrowbanded, you could be operating outside FCC rules.

Final comment, the frequencies you mention are assigned to the Family Radio Service (FRS). I'm not sure that repeaters are allowed in FRS.

Thank you for your comments. Those frequencies were just hypothetical but the 5mhz offset may be what's wrong on our actual frequencies... I'll have to check with our FCC commission rep. I appreciate the information!
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
10,048
Location
Point Nemo.
#4
I understand your desire to not share the frequency info, but it makes it hard for us to assist.

As W9BU said, having your frequencies spaced that close together is going to cause all kinds of issues. When your company applied for their FCC license, there should have been frequency coordination involved. The frequency coordinator would have set you up with the RX and TX frequencies spaced 5MHz apart, if on the UHF band. The minimal amount of spacing you are showing in your example is probably way too close for the duplexers to handle.

As for the CTCSS/PL tones….
Probably the terminology is the hang up. In Kenwood terms, they often use QT (Quiet Tone) or DQT (Digital Quiet Tone). Motorola will use PL (Private Line) and DPL (Digital Private Line). QT = PL = CTCSS and DQT = DPL = DCS.

And, narrow band is required in the USA on the UHF band. If the TKR-820 isn't set up for narrow band, you need to get that resolved right away.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
9
Location
Bowling Green KY
#5
I understand your desire to not share the frequency info, but it makes it hard for us to assist.

As W9BU said, having your frequencies spaced that close together is going to cause all kinds of issues. When your company applied for their FCC license, there should have been frequency coordination involved. The frequency coordinator would have set you up with the RX and TX frequencies spaced 5MHz apart, if on the UHF band. The minimal amount of spacing you are showing in your example is probably way too close for the duplexers to handle.

As for the CTCSS/PL tones….
Probably the terminology is the hang up. In Kenwood terms, they often use QT (Quiet Tone) or DQT (Digital Quiet Tone). Motorola will use PL (Private Line) and DPL (Digital Private Line). QT = PL = CTCSS and DQT = DPL = DCS.

And, narrow band is required in the USA on the UHF band. If the TKR-820 isn't set up for narrow band, you need to get that resolved right away.

Thank you for the information. Apparently the company was sent the wrong information the first time and neglected to send me the revised frequencies.

That combined with the explanation of QT/DQT equaling PL/DPL and the 5mhz offset information, I was able to fix the issues.

Thank you very much! I really appreciate the enthusiasm and willingness to help others. This forum has helped me through the process of my company getting into this type of equipment.
 

buddrousa

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 5, 2003
Messages
5,399
Location
NW Tenn
#8
Do you have a WATT METER how about a SERVICE MONITOR? Do you know you will be responsible for the radio system and this meeting the FCC rules. This is not a DIY home project.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
9
Location
Bowling Green KY
#9
Do you have a WATT METER how about a SERVICE MONITOR? Do you know you will be responsible for the radio system and this meeting the FCC rules. This is not a DIY home project.

My only job currently is to setup the system to work. They are hiring someone to come in and make sure it is all FCC compatible and meets regulation. I'm only trying to program it and the radios to work together but I appreciate your concern.

This system won't be going into operation until after it meets all FCC guidelines, rules and regulations.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
10,048
Location
Point Nemo.
#10
My only job currently is to setup the system to work. They are hiring someone to come in and make sure it is all FCC compatible and meets regulation. I'm only trying to program it and the radios to work together but I appreciate your concern.
The person that makes sure it's working correctly is going to be able to properly set up this repeater a heck of a lot faster than you can. If you are paying him/her to do this, spend the extra few bucks to have them bench the repeater and set it up correctly.

This system won't be going into operation until after it meets all FCC guidelines, rules and regulations.
Uh hu. You need some technical assistance. Trying to save your company money by doing it yourself using resources found on the internet isn't going to help much when the FCC comes knocking and hands you a notice of violation. Really, it's going to be cheaper, faster and easier to hire someone to do this for you.
 
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
22
Location
Marble Falls, Texas
#13
As listed in the Kenwood post only new FCC Lic for the last 9 months in OP area GMRS and that is less than 10.
I went back a year in the OPs county and and found WRBY217, WRCD846 and WRBT805, so there might be three possibilities, but it is doubtful that is where it is, especially when you look at the licenses. If the OP can look on his license and confirm which one it is, some remote assistance might be feasible. Obscuring the frequency makes a challenging question unsolvable.
The TKR 820 I saw referenced was the 470-512 model, which can't be licensed within hundreds of miles of the OP's location and it can't be reasonably reconfigured to operate on the above three licenses. In the T band, there have been very few new licenses issued in America over the past few years and I would speculate none in KY.
The TKR 820 has a very narrow receiver (that is, needs professional alignment) that is sensitive. It is also wide-band only, with a few exceptions. The XPR 7550 (UHF model) has a very broad operating range and could be programmed to communicate with a TKR 820 (with a Wideband entitlement on the 7550), but the reasons why to invest the effort escapes me. It makes no sense to spend the resources to configure a 25 year old TKR 820 (which is a good, wide-band only, technically obsolete repeater) with a XPR 7550 for a business.
There are some very capable and generous folks here on RR with information, but posters need to provide useful information for meaningful assistance.
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2011
Messages
1,225
Location
Shawnee Kansas (Kansas City)
#14
All good points N5XPM along with the fact that wide band radios became illegal in 2013. Also you may not program a radio with frequencies that the licensee is not authorized to use. So as everyone has said get someone who knows what they are doing so you don't get caught holding the bag when the FCC comes knocking on your door.
BB
 

krokus

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
3,638
Location
Southeastern Michigan
#16
I am curious about the money aspect, as the 7550 is a higher end model, and being from the big M, is going to be much more costly than other options. (Unless the MotoTRBO is going to be utilized, which requires a different repeater, and more money.)

Sent using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
10,048
Location
Point Nemo.
#19
Of course, it could just be a pure coincidence.
gtsecurity contacted me via PM.
He said that "my company gave me the frequencies". If he's the principal officer, this doesn't pass the sniff test.
Frequencies were in the T-band and with non-standard split. Neither of the frequencies showed up on the FCC database. The only place they did show up were in the Houston market and San Francisco market.

Various other things as well as his previous posts suggests he's on his own and just guessing at this stuff trying to set up his own radio system.

I think most of us have figured out what's going on here. Hopefully he figures out that he cannot just make up frequencies and put his system on them. I'd hate to see the FCC come knocking at his door.
 
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