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Mounting a CB antenna on a modern hatchback without drilling?

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drewdownkali

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Okay. I believe the coax and mount that come together all test out. Continuity from center pin in coax to center pin on mount, same with barrel on coax and outer threads on mount.No continuity between inner and outer of coax/mount. Antenna I am bit confused by. Should there be continuity between the threads on the antenna and the center pin of the antenna? If not, there is.
 

mmckenna

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Yes, with an unexplained high SWR reading you need to rule out a short in the coaxial cable. It's not uncommon for poorly or incorrectly install UHF connectors to do this.

So, here is a couple of other things to check, since it sounds like you've done the basics:
Remove the whip from the antenna.
Check for continuity from the center pin on the bottom of the coil to the point where the whip attaches. You should have continuity there.
Before you reinstall the whip, do the following:
Use a file, knife, sandpaper, teeth, or something to remove the whip coating down to bare metal where the set screw hits.
Make sure the inside of the "cone" where the whip inserts is clean and not corroded.
Make sure the set screw is clean and not corroded.
Make sure the threaded hole where the set screw goes is clean and not corroded.
When you tighten down the set screw that holds the whip in place, make sure it's tight enough to make really good contact.
The spring loaded pins on the bottom of the coils can be problematic. Make sure it moves freely and isn't jammed up.
Sometimes certain NMO mounts and certain antennas don't get along. It is possible that the center pin of the coil isn't making contact with the NMO mount. When I see your picture of the NMO mount, I can see that the outer threaded ring is sitting higher than the inner part of the NMO mount. This can create issues where the center pin of the coil won't make contact. You might need to disassemble the NMO mount and make sure there are not any extra gaskets in the way. Some of those ham radio brand NMO mounts are designed for half wave antennas and they don't put a lot of effort into making sure everything is grounded correctly.

-as for those above steps, it's a good idea to check those often. It's pretty easy for water to get down inside where the whip attaches and can cause corrosion and no end of issues. Antenna preventative maintenance should be a regularly scheduled thing.-

Reading through your previous posts, you guys look like you are on the right track. If you were local, I'd happily give you some of my time to help sort this out. It's likely something simple to fix it.

Not likely it's the radio. The radio will put out a carrier, or it won't. If your SWR meter is moving, then it's putting out a carrier.

Can you give some info about your SWR meter? Is it the one built in to the radio, or are you using a stand alone meter? How are you setting it up? How are you calibrating it? If it's an external one, how are you hooking it up?

What about the coaxial cable? Is it the stuff that came with the mount? What about the connector? Was it pre-installed or did someone install it?
Is it one continuous run of cable, or did you extend it?
How are you powering the radio? Where is your power coming from? Is the body of the radio grounded? (don't rely on the negative power wire for this.)

hang in there, these things are not that complicated and we'll help you sort it out.
 

drewdownkali

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I'll have to check that antenna stuff. These are all new items(mount with coax, antenna). Antenna came wrapped in plastic, don't think there would be any corrosion. My swr meter is one of those 40 dollar ones from radio shack. I know the pin makes contact.

There is a picture up there of a little piece of paper that the guy at comet told me to put in there and screw antenna on. The mark on it is where the pin contacted it.
 

mmckenna

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Looking closer at the pictures, I'll add this:

Looks like you do have the antenna and coil mounted up high enough to get away from the body.
I'm concerned about the NMO mount and the chance that the center pin of the coil isn't making good contact.

The other thing I'd try, and you may have already done this, is to make sure there is a really good ground connection between the hatchback and the rest of the body. A flat piece of braid or very flexible wire can do this. Don't rely on the hinges, latches or any other moving metal to metal connection for the RF ground. It's not uncommon to need to install additional RF grounds when you are mounting on a hatchback, trunk lid, or even adjacent to them. It all goes back to the DC ground vs an RF ground. They don't necessarily mean the same thing.
 

drewdownkali

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Looking closer at the pictures, I'll add this:

Looks like you do have the antenna and coil mounted up high enough to get away from the body.
I'm concerned about the NMO mount and the chance that the center pin of the coil isn't making good contact.

The other thing I'd try, and you may have already done this, is to make sure there is a really good ground connection between the hatchback and the rest of the body. A flat piece of braid or very flexible wire can do this. Don't rely on the hinges, latches or any other moving metal to metal connection for the RF ground. It's not uncommon to need to install additional RF grounds when you are mounting on a hatchback, trunk lid, or even adjacent to them. It all goes back to the DC ground vs an RF ground. They don't necessarily mean the same thing.

I know its making contact based on the piece of paper.made sure it grounding. Added a ground strap from hatch to rest of car and checked to see I then had better continuity.
 

drewdownkali

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OOkay, pictures wont upload. Bottom of whip is clean metal. Looks like cb guy did that. There is conductivity from the inside to the center pin but doesn't hit zero (but meter beeps like its supposed to). Might be because can't get probe that far in there.
 

mmckenna

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OOkay, pictures wont upload. Bottom of whip is clean metal. Looks like cb guy did that. There is conductivity from the inside to the center pin but doesn't hit zero (but meter beeps like its supposed to). Might be because can't get probe that far in there.

OK, so that passes the basic stuff. Now you need to look into the RF side of things.

I'm really curious about what you are using for an SWR meter, how it's hooked up, and how it's calibrated. An improperly calibrated SWR meter would explain this.

Adjusting whip length is something that we need to look closer at. When you are checking the SWR, what is the reading on channel 40 versus channel 1? That can indicate if it's too long or short. If it's way out, you are going to need to do some cutting, likely. 49" sounds a bit long, but it's been a while since I've set up a CB antenna.
 

drewdownkali

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Radio shack swr meter.How it's hooked up? coax from antenna to back of meter. 10ft coax from back of radio to meter.

SWR is above 3 on both channel 1 and 40. Across the band so I don't see how cutting will make difference. If SWR was at 3 on ch40 and 1 on ch 1 then I would see how longer or shorter would make a difference.
 

mmckenna

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Radio shack swr meter.How it's hooked up? coax from antenna to back of meter. 10ft coax from back of radio to meter.

SWR is above 3 on both channel 1 and 40. Across the band so I don't see how cutting will make difference. If SWR was at 3 on ch40 and 1 on ch 1 then I would see how longer or shorter would make a difference.

OK, but how did you calibrate the meter?

You should set it up like this:
Set the FWD/REF switch to FWD (Forward power)
Key the radio and adjust the knob so the needle is showing maximum deflection.
Set the switch to REF (reflected power)
Key the radio and read the number.

That will give you a very coarse view of what is going on, basically magnifying the reading.

To get the accurate reading of the true SWR, Do the above, but instead of setting the knob for maximum needle deflection, set it around 3 watts.
Read the reflected power/SWR and that should show the true SWR for the set up.

Also, make sure you are testing the antenna out in the open, not inside a garage or near any large metal structures. Those can couple to the antenna and detune it. Ideally you want to do your antenna tuning with all the vehicle doors close and parked out in the middle of a parking lot, away from all lamp posts, etc.
 

mmckenna

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As for cutting the antenna, I understand what you are saying...

Once you've ruled out all the other issues, it pretty much leaves the actual antenna length.
The antenna should have come with a cut sheet. On their, it'll show the model of antenna. Since there are the models with the spring and models without the spring, you need to make sure you are using the right cut chart. Some companies will publish a separate list for spring or no spring. Some just say "reduce by X inches if spring installed".

The whip length out of the bag is the factory default. That whip is common between antennas on different bands, so they will likely require cutting. Use the chart and find the length for 27MHz. Cut it to that length and give it a try. That -should- get you pretty darn close.
If you have already done that, we are about out of tricks, short of adding to the antenna using a short piece of wire. If it's too short, you'll need to order a new whip.
 

drewdownkali

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Yeah it came with a 47in antenna as opposed to a 49in which the models with out spings come with. The cb guy trimmed off a very small amount. Tested. Trimmed a little bit more and retested. Still bad. So he went and got another whip that was 48in long and got it at best in the high 2's I believe. I took it off and ever since it is even worse according to my meter. Wasn't very good anyway. I lose my buddy after a few car lengths and he says I sound garbled.
 

mmckenna

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So, I pulled up the cut chart for that antenna. With the spring, your whip should be cut to 47 inches, end to end. Don't count the spring or the "cone" where the whip attaches.

That should get you in the ball park.
 

mmckenna

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Yeah it came with a 47in antenna as opposed to a 49in which the models with out spings come with. The cb guy trimmed off a very small amount. Tested. Trimmed a little bit more and retested. Still bad. So he went and got another whip that was 48in long and got it at best in the high 2's I believe. I took it off and ever since it is even worse according to my meter. Wasn't very good anyway. I lose my buddy after a few car lengths and he says I sound garbled.

Hmmmm, I'd trim it back down to 47 inches and try that. I'm not entirely sure I'd trust the CB shop guy, at least until you figure out for sure what the issue is.
 
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