Nassau County PD & NYPD, what a mess

[Danny37]

Today a pursuit that originated in valley Stream and went into queens, ended up in a wild goose chase among the 105 and 113 precincts. NYPD were getting 911 calls saying the perp was shooting at Nassau county but all Nassau county gave them was the belt pkwy. Even the dispatcher was frustrated because of how much info they were lacking so all the NYPD units were scrolling up and down the belt looking for Nassau county units. Dispatched said she was making attempts to call them but they weren't picking up via landline. Fortunately ESU I assume have access to Nassau county pd system because they were able to obtain the correct location which ended up being in valley Stream. Half of the Nassau county units went chasing the wrong car into queens.

Why hasn't mutual aid been established for these two jurisdictions? It seems like a lot of incident cross over a lot, mostly low priority ones but all I can think about was how easy it would be for Nassau county supervisor to come over the NYPD air and give them the proper info and vice versa. Literally 10 valuable minutes wasted because of poor communication between the two agencies.

 

[APX8000]

Probably because Nassau County PD decided to encrypt their dispatch channels and regular NYPD units don’t have their encryption key. All these years after 9/11 and instead of true Interop we go the opposite direction.


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[dave3825]

Probably because Nassau County PD decided to encrypt their dispatch channels and regular NYPD units don’t have their encryption key. All these years after 9/11 and instead of true Interop we go the opposite direction.

Yet scpd can talk to ncpd in the clear when they have their inter op tg turned on? Is that because ncpd and scpd both use trunked systems and nypd uses conventional? I see the NYPD Citywide 2 Patch tg active at times on the state metro 25 system. NYPD has only one tg on doitt 800 and its taru. Definitely lacking interops.

 

[Danny37]

NY is always backwards. I don't see why they can't assign a radio to the police station houses along the border in situations like this. Are they afraid they'll be able to overhear their day to day radios runs like come on. This incident could've went south very fast. I have a friend who works as a NYPD dispatcher and he says Nassau county dispatchers are always nasty to them when they call and sometimes don't pick up at all. I even asked him about the incident today and he just threw his hands up and was like there's nothing we can do.

 

[DaveNF2G]

When NYC starts playing nice with others, then maybe they can expect some reciprocity.

The dispatchers and line police officers are not the problem. It is the administrations of the municipalities and their attitude problems that trickle down into daily operations.

 

[KC2GSP]

The Nassau layout sounds like one of those things that was purely based on spending money for the sake of wanting to spend money.

 

[Danny37]

If it was contracted to Motorola that makes sense. Paying for something you don't need seems to be common among public safety radio upgrades and contracts.

 

[Danny37]

When NYC starts playing nice with others, then maybe they can expect some reciprocity.

The dispatchers and line police officers are not the problem. It is the administrations of the municipalities and their attitude problems that trickle down into daily operations.

I'm aware of that but maybe set the politics and pride aside in favor of officer and public safety. It's going to get someone hurt or even killed.

 

[Darkstar350]

I have only seen few Nassau cars with multiple antennas on them
Most NCPD units just have the small antenna for the 500mhz system and the other "disk" type wifi/data antenna
It does seem that Nassau has more interop capability with Suffolk as opposed to NYPD from what i gather
I think some NCPD units have 800mhz Suffolk radios in them - not sure if Suffolk can talk on the Nassau system
I would guess the Nassau cars with the multiple antennas/radios in them would be perhaps highway patrol or other type units that may need to operate close to or out of the immediate area at times...

 

[IAmSixNine]

Your department is not alone.
A month ago a local department went to a new P25 Phase 2 system and encrypted PD/FD. The FD in the first week had a mutual aid call and the neighboring hazmat team had to use cell phones to call dispatch to get a safe route in. They werent happy.
Last week the PD got into a chase and called for a helo from DPS, their response was awesome. They said on DPS radio to the dispatcher, "Relay to them we are unable to assist them with their chase due to them going encrypted"
Its only going to get worse, by that i mean interoperability.

 

[dave3825]

I think some NCPD units have 800mhz Suffolk radios in them - not sure if Suffolk can talk on the Nassau system

Nassau system has a Suffolk I/O tg and Suffolk system has a NCPD Highway InterOp Link tg.

You should be able to tell whats what from the rid's when these tg's are in use. I cleared a bunch of unitrunkers history files so I can't offer much except that suffolk uses 5 digit radio id's and nassau uses 7 digit radio id's.

On the suffolk system it shows some joins and logins from 5 digit radio id's on the i/o tg.

On the nass system it shows some joins and logins from 7 digit radio id's on the i/o tg.

So it looks like suffolk might have a nassau radio and nass has a suffolk radio.

 

[Archie]

Just give them portables....

Mount Vernon, NY and the 47th in the bordering Bronx have traded portables as did Yonkers and the neighboring 50th pct and the NY State DEP at Hillview Reservoir ..and I think White Plains and Greenburgh also did this exchange...this aside, there is no hotline from Long Island to NYC ???

Saw in the 93 edition of Scanner Master that Port Chester, NY was ( and may still be) linked into the Fairfield County hotline frequency.. seems like this has become needlessly complicated...you would think Nassau would want it first as we can assume many Queens perps are migrating there for their crimes....

 

[Danny37]

Mount Vernon, NY and the 47th in the bordering Bronx have traded portables as did Yonkers and the neighboring 50th pct and the NY State DEP at Hillview Reservoir ..and I think White Plains and Greenburgh also did this exchange...this aside, there is no hotline from Long Island to NYC ???

Saw in the 93 edition of Scanner Master that Port Chester, NY was ( and may still be) linked into the Fairfield County hotline frequency.. seems like this has become needlessly complicated...you would think Nassau would want it first as we can assume many Queens perps are migrating there for their crimes....

The direct line goes straight to Nassau County 911 as they have a Backdoor number as most 911 centers have for out of area calls. From what I could gather from my friend, they used to have direct lines to dispatchers but not anymore.

Exactly what I was thinking to, NYPD definitely has better communication with westchester then it does with Nassau. Lots of jobs spill over on the Bronx/Yonkers/mount Vernon border but there's established communication between them. A simple exchange of portable radios would be a life saver for sure.

 

[BARNEYR]

Nassau PD does have NYPD freqs in radios. Any time one agency crosses the border it's a sh!$ show.

 

[weathermedic]

Not to mention that NYC OEM (or EM as they like to call themselves now) does do radio checks with Nassau OEM when they do their daily radio run down checklist. Of course by the time both OEM offices would get updates from their respective police department dispatchers, I am sure there would be a few minutes time lag on both ends.

 

[radioman2001]

I am going to go out on a limb here based upon memory and news reports. One of the reasons IMO Nassau went encrypted is because a retired or off duty NYPD invaded a tense scene after hearing the call on a scanner at his home. He walked in to the scene and declared some one with a gun who turned up being a Nassau officer who was then shot and killed by fellow officers due to this NYPD officers gun shout. I would say that is possibly a reason for non cooperation and nastiness with NYPD.

quote"
NYPD definitely has better communication with Westchester then it does with Nassau.

Once in Westchester they have the telephone hot line between all departments. plus NYPD's radio system is second to none, and carries far into the surrounding jurisdictions. I accidently ended up in the middle of a pursuit some years back with NYPD chasing a vehicle from the 47 in the Bronx into White Plains. The radio system covered all the way up the Sprain Parkway on to I-287 and into downtown White Plains. NYPD had the perps under arrest before White Plains even knew about the pursuit, as they kept calling Central for assistance from White Plains..

There a lot more to than just exchanging portables, there is the matter of protocol. Some agencies don't like relinquishing control over their officers to another agency via radio. Even FDNY has a policy of no radio possession of other than a FDNY radio while working.

 

[Darkstar350]

NCPD decided to encrypt their replacement for their EDACS communications system long before the Massapequa Park incident.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Nassau-County-Police-officer-Killed.html

Settlement Reached In Suit Over Death Of Nassau Cop Geoffrey Breitkopf « CBS New York

New details in Nassau Co. officer shooting, neighbor describes chaos with retired officer | abc7ny.com

Retired NYPD sergeant John Cafarella was barking orders before cop was killed by friendly fire | TransitCop

I decided to forego downloading MTAPD Officer Gentiles photo as it would be counterproductive.

Seems like that could be a reason - but the encrypted 500mhz system was/is not a replacement for the EDACS system
It replaced the analog conventional 470mhz freqs that NCPD used
For a while they were simulcasting then took it off the air
The 800mhz EDACS system is still on the air and it will possibly be replaced with a 700mhz P25 system
No idea yet if PD will migrate to the 700mhz system, or stay on the 500mhz system and the users of the EDACS system such as DPW and OEM will use the 700mhz system...

 

[newsnick175]

Nassau is the prime example of the “Cover your Rear End” school of police work. The people who run LE there have very little regard for their officers ability to use radio communications. Encryption is a slap in the face of all good cops and the people who pay their salaries. My evidence of this is NYC, the biggest target for terror attacks. No encryption on routine precinct level radios.

 

[Darkstar350]

Did seem like it was a politicized motive when NCPD wanted to encrypt but i think the detectives channels as well as SWAT team were either encrypted or digital even when they were conventional
That aside i personally dont have a problem with encryption as long as it does not break the bank and or hinder radio performance
The 500mhz seems to have decent coverage so theres no real reason to change that "if its not broke dont fix it" as the saying goes however there is room for some better NCPD inter op plans speaking of which i heard the new County executive is "on good terms" with the NYC mayor so perhaps this could be a positive thing in regard to NCPD/NYPD relations...

 

[dave3825]

i think the detectives channels as well as SWAT team were either encrypted or digital even when they were conventional

I could be wrong but I don't ever remember enc on the old system. Def not digital as it was an analog system.

i personally don't have a problem with encryption as long as it does not break the bank and or hinder radio performance

I hate it as there is nothing to listen to except stupid bs stuff. Atleast with just the dispatch channels, you would have some kind of sense of what's going on in the county.