Need opinions and assistance

[flyingscot49]

I apologize if this is the wrong forum for this post. I have not posted here before (or it's been a while).
I have been using GMRS for several years and have been working with a couple of handhelds. Now I want to add both a mobile unit and a home base to expand my system before I go for the technician license. While I like the Midland MTX500 & MTX575 I have heard that they are tuned so tight that incoming signals can easily drift and you lose half the incoming conversation.

Facts from actual users are appreciated. I live in a rural area in the Piedmont / Appalachian area of Pennsylvania. I have a strict budget and these would have to be stretched over a year or two. Also looking for suggestions on home systems.
Thanks

 

[alcahuete]

If you're on a strict budget and it's going to take a year or two to pay off, you might want to re-think your plan, if you are getting into ham radio.

While still not technically legal, some Part 90 UHF radios would cover GMRS and 70cm amateur radio. I don't know about your particular location, but there are a crapload of 70cm repeaters in Pennsylvania. They are going to potentially cost a little more unless you buy used, they require programming software, etc., but you're going to get a really good radio that can be used for both of your hobbies.

For a base unit at home, you just take a mobile unit, add a power supply, and outdoor antenna, and you'll be good to go.

 

[jeepsandradios]

I use the Midland 275/575 in all my vehicles. What is the plan for use on your GMRS channels ? If your using it to talk to others on the trail or on simplex I have yet to have an issue with the midland. Some complain about repeater use but mine work fine. They dont need tuned or changed to work out of the box. To my knowledge they are the only GMRS specific made radios out there. All others are a CCR that sold in ham, gmrs and other flavors.

Part 90 is another option but are never plug and play. I run Motorola gear in all my vehicles (yes in addition to the midland) for public safety and GMRS.

 

[2IR473]

Those Midland radios are, in my opinion, extremely overpriced. They are sold with the Jeep ($$$) crowd in mind, and are designed for ease of use. If you are interested in radio as a hobby and are expecting to get a ham radio license, you might want to look at other options.

An option that many are using for GMRS is the Anytone AT-779UV/Retevis RA-25/Radioddity DB20-G radios (all the same radio). I personally own the Anytone AT-779UV and like it very much, and they include the programming cable, which some others may sell separately. These radios generally sell for around $100 or so. They are sold as GMRS radios, but they do have the ability to be used on the amateur radio 2m/70cm bands. While this modification would nullify the GMRS Part 95e certification, I mention it for you to research on your own. I use my AT-779UV for GMRS and to listen to public safety dispatches and local ham radio repeaters as well, which you cannot do with the Midland radios.

If you are contemplating getting an amateur radio license, you could use these radios when you obtain your license. They are only around 20 watts output versus the 50 watts of the Midlands, but 50 watts is not really needed most of the time. So much of your radio experience depends on factors like the terrain around where you live, and if you use repeaters versus simplex communications. Using the right antenna will be much more effective, versus throwing a lot of power at it.

Money is a concern to most of us these days, and spending $800+ on two Midland GMRS radios seems excessive to me, when you could get radios of equal or greater capability for much less money. And on top of the cost of the radios, there is the cost of antennas, coax cable and antenna mounts, etc. I think you could have most of what you want and need for around half the cost of two Midland radios.

 

[bharvey2]

As mentioned above, I'd very much recommend going with Part90/95 commercial radios. I'm a fan of Kenwoods, (TK8180 or even an older TK880) which are Part 95 approved. Motorola has comparable models too although I'm not as familiar with those. They are going to be used but finding one in decent shape is not too hard and the cost can be quite reasonable. The same goes with programming cables and software. If you don't expect to program them often, you may even find a shop or person locally that you could hire to handle the programming. I've used commercial radios for my GMRS and ham radio activities and have never looked back.

 

[flyingscot49]

Thanks to all the respondents. Again this is a great group for information. I don't intend to run a repeater, as one said there are a crap load of them in this section of PA and the ones I am usually on have reach beyond belief. I have a nice (don't kill me please) baofeng that I have been using to listen into repeaters, etc. But I want something that I can use in the car for the few times I do travel.

I am beginning to think that a handheld will do me for now. I'm not afraid of the programming aspect of the mobile or base. I spent 30+ years in computers. I am just not ready to hit the deep end of the pool yet. I have plenty of options to loook t ust from the few responses I have now. I'll check back later and let you know how I'm doing.

 

[iMONITOR]

Generally GMRS will disappoint.

 

[N4KVE]

Heck, I’m a Motorola guy, but for the $ you can’t beat a Kenwood 880. They’re under $75, & work great. A programming cable is cheap, & the CPS is easy to find. That’s the best bang for the buck, and while they won’t look as fancy the trio of CCR’s mentioned above, the 880 will run circles around them. Link for reference.

Kenwood TK-880-2 ver UHF FM Transceiver-Mobile radio | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Kenwood TK-880-2 ver UHF FM Transceiver-Mobile radio at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[W8UU]

Three suggestions:

1) Commercial Equipment
2) Commercial Equipment
3) Commercial Equipment

I've tried several of the Chinese radios with 800 different buttons and always been disappointed. Their saving graces are being small and cheap. But for the money, a decent used Kenwood or Motorola from eBay will last longer, have a better receiver and transmitter, and generally outperform the Chinese radios and even the Midland GMRS stuff. Motorola CDM series equipment can be had for under $100 and the same for late-model Kenwood products. I have two GE MLS radios purchased for GMRS use in 1992. Still going strong with zero repairs or issues. Just my $0.02.

 

[prcguy]

This is a fantastic radio for GMRS at a very cheap price. You can even program a file with all CTSCC tones and select one on the fly as you travel. $129 for a Motorola XTL1500 and you can buy a programming cable for $15 and the software for $45 on eBay. It will need a mic and accy cable but those are also on eBay. I've bought several of these recently and love them.

Motorola XTL1500 UHF 450-520MHz M28SSS9PW1AN FC 0080080024105 | eBay

<p>Motorola XTL1500 UHF 450-520MHz M28SSS9PW1AN FC 0080080024105. </p><br /><p>Item used and in working order.</p><br /><p>Radio only, no microphone, power or aux cables. Only what’s pictured. </p>

www.ebay.com

 

[6079smithw]

What W8UU and prcguy said. You may also consider the CM300, there's a lot of them
out there at about the same price. 32 channels, power up to 40 watts and the
438-470 range covers ham, GMRS and commercial freqs. Prog cables and RSS
are available on eBay and elsewhere. I run them in my DD and work vehicles
and they do a great job.
Welcome Aboard and keep us posted as you progress!

 

[SteveC0625]

Add the Motorola PM400 to the list. Uses the same software and cable as the CM300 and has the same frequency and rf power range. It also has Multiple PL capability that is FPP.

 

[KG4Y]

As I write this, I am down in my 'shack' monitoring local amateur and GMRS UHF repeater frequencies with my Kenwood TK-8180-K2 that is capable of 30 watts nominal maximum output power. There are also TK-8180H variants are rated at either 45 or 50 Watts maximum nominal output power. I also own a couple of TK-8180H-K radios. that work well for GMRS.

There are two common band splits, as designated by the 'K' or 'K2' suffix. The 'K' suffix indicates a frequency coverage range of 450-512 MHz. The 'K2' suffix indicates a frequency coverage range of 400-470 MHz. While either will do for GMRS, the 'K2' model is a better match if you intend to buy one UHF radio to do both GMRS and amateur 70-centimeter activity. The downside is that the 'K2' variant is less common than the 'K' variant if you were to look for these radios on eBay. If you are patient and not in a hurry, they do come up from time to time.

Not all is lost for amateur use if you were to select the 'K' version. The KPG-89D CPS used to program this series of radios will complain about frequencies being out of range but will not stop you from pushing them into the radio. I have successfully programmed and used my TK-8180-K radios below 450 MHz but this may not be the most optimal service and may not work well. I have gone as low as 442 MHz transmit and receive with what seemed acceptable levels of performance.

As a former U.S. Navy Electronics Technician, I didn't want to push it and operate that gear outside of its configured band limits for too long. So, the minute I stumbled across the TK-8180-K2, I picked it up. I will say that your mileage may vary with out-of-band operation on these rigs. I do not have the equipment needed to verify and / or tune these radios, so I am a little more comfortable knowing that I am operating the K2 model within its intended parameters.

I find the performance of these Kenwood radios to be on par with (or better than) any common surplus Motorola gear out there. I have the KMC-35 hand mic which feels and looks right. I also happen to have a VHF twin (TK-7180H) to which I connected a KMC-32 16-key DTMF mic. Both seem to work well with the folks on the other end giving favorable reports of how I sound to them. I prefer the receiver audio of these Kenwood receivers over most Motorola surplus transceivers. It is hard to put my finger on exactly why, but the low frequency roll-off seems to be a little more aggressive on these Kenwood units that cleans up some of the bass and associated muddiness I hear in some Motorola setups. The CPS software (KPG-89D) and associated programming cable (KPG-46) for the Kenwood radios seems to be easier to obtain than many of the Motorola CPS software packages. KPG-89D works on my Windows 10 and Windows 11 PCs. It also worked on my Windows 7 PC.

By comparison, I also have some Motorola gear here that works - Motorola CDM-750/1250/1550 series mobiles work well. More recently, I acquired a Motorola XPR4550 DMR / analog FM mobile radio that works well. I bought the CPS package some years ago for the CDM-series radios, and more recently for the XPR4550 TRbo radio. It was necessary to jump through some hoops with Motorola to get the wide band (i.e. 20 and 25 kHz) entitlements to use with those radios. As of (I think) 2013, VHF and UHF LMR service radios were mandated to operate narrow bandwidth (i.e. 12.5 kHz). Both GMRS and Amateur are still 25 kHz on analog FM mode. The entitlements from Motorola did not cost me extra, but I did have to go through an online training class from Motorola (also free) to make sure I understood what I was doing with bandwidths before they would issue wide band entitlement keys to me. It was a bit of a pain in the you-know-what.

In any case, I hope I have provided some information that answers what you want to know.

 

[mmckenna]

As of (I think) 2013,

January 01, 2013.

VHF and UHF LMR service radios were mandated to operate narrow bandwidth (i.e. 12.5 kHz). Both GMRS and Amateur are still 25 kHz on analog FM mode. The entitlements from Motorola did not cost me extra, but I did have to go through an online training class from Motorola (also free) to make sure I understood what I was doing with bandwidths before they would issue wide band entitlement keys to me. It was a bit of a pain in the you-know-what.

The TK-x180 radios are pretty well respected and solid.
The challenge is that you need to be careful with what you purchase. It's not so much the model radio (although only the 450-520MHz/30 watt version has Part 95 certification), it's the firmware version. Any radios produced after the end of 2012, or one that someone updated to late 2012 or newer firmware, will only do narrow band.
That's a problem since GMRS uses wide band, and most repeaters and serious GMRS users use wideband. Same for amateur radio. Hams have not embraced narrow banding, so running a narrow band radio on ham will likely result in some complaints of poor audio.

Good radios, but make sure they either have older firmware, or you have a W-license for the software.

 

[mmckenna]

(although only the 450-520MHz/30 watt version has Part 95 certification),

I should clarify that. The only TK-8180 mobile that has Part 95 certification is the 30 watt 450-520MHz model.
The hand held models are the same way, only the 450-520MHz model has Part 95 certification.
I know, most people don't care, but it's important for those that want to make a properly informed decision.

 

[KG4Y]

January 01, 2013.



The TK-x180 radios are pretty well respected and solid.
The challenge is that you need to be careful with what you purchase. It's not so much the model radio (although only the 450-520MHz/30 watt version has Part 95 certification), it's the firmware version. Any radios produced after the end of 2012, or one that someone updated to late 2012 or newer firmware, will only do narrow band.
That's a problem since GMRS uses wide band, and most repeaters and serious GMRS users use wideband. Same for amateur radio. Hams have not embraced narrow banding, so running a narrow band radio on ham will likely result in some complaints of poor audio.

Good radios, but make sure they either have older firmware, or you have a W-license for the software.

That is valuable information as well - thanks for sharing it.

I have a couple of TK-8180H models with the 'K' (450-520) split that were liquidated in bulk from some Florida public safety agency and sold dirt cheap on eBay a couple of years ago. I missed the boat again on Part 95 certification there too. Too bad the TK-8180 with the 'K2' (400-470) split is not certified for Part 95, but I get it. K2 is the lesser common split. Part 95 users as a market segment pale in comparison to the Part 90 and other applicable federal market segments. The relative inconvenience and expense of adding another FCC Part 95 certification to a radio just because the Part 90 frequency coverage includes the same spectrum is not a legitimate business priority as the sales of these radios would then take that much longer to get into the financial black from the red. In a risk analysis context, the right question would be why to do it, and the right answer would most likely be to not do it.

In any case, FCC Part 97 seems not as stringent as Part 95 in terms of what flies and what does not, due to the nature and expectation of the amateur service including the notion of experimentation. So, I think it makes sense to have an awareness of Part 95 rules so I understand the risks I may or may not be taking.