Need scanner for powerline noise detection

[below500kc]

Ok, not the usual scanner topic, but I'm looking for an inexpensive handheld to be used for tracking powerline noise. I guess it doesn't have to be a scanner but needs to receive the UHF band with the capability of operating in the AM mode. If the device defaults to FM because of the UHF freq range, that's no good. I need to be able to select AM mode no matter what freq range the handheld is set to. I'll also need the handheld to have a antenna jack (not a fixed shorty antenna) because I'll be hooking a portable 5 el beam to it. I've looked at specs for inexpensive scanners as well as Boefang rigs but can't seem to find out if they have selectable detection modes for the vhf/uhf ranges. Oh, don't want to use AM aircraft freqs because the beam antennas are too large at that freq.

Any ideas?

 

[pb_lonny]

Can you explain what you are trying to do? If you are tracking power line noise, what frequencies are having issues?

 

[popnokick]

Depending on what you are trying to do an RTL-SDR USB "stick" receiver and HDSDR or similar software may be a better option since you'll be able to see the spectrum display which may help distinguish the source of whether what you are hearing / seeing is power line noise. Otherwise, look at the Uniden BC125AT.... it is AM in the MILAIR and civil air freq ranges.

 

[jonwienke]

A $21 RTL-SDR dongle can go from a few kilohertz in direct sample mode to over 1.5GHz. SDR# is free, and lets you choose any modulation at any frequency. All you need is a Windows netbook with a USB port.

 

[kruser]

If you want just a portable and don't want to mess with SDR, I've used the AOR AR8200 for this exact thing before. It can be set to any mode within it's tuning range.
I think the new Icom R-30 can also do the same with at least one of its VFO's.

I live within a hundred yards are so of a power company substation where above ground switching is done as well as distribution of local above ground services.
It is common for this sub-station or associated above ground circuits to go bad and start emitting RFI across a WIDE range of frequencies.
In one case, it was wiping out reception from my VHF business repeaters output only a mile away the way the crow flies.
I could not hear my users on my portable or a base radio but I could when I engaged the NB circuit on an Icom R-9000. I don't even know why I tried the NB circuit on the R9000 as they are usually not available above 30 MHz (and usually never in FM mode) but it was on my R9000 and I later found the same on an R7000.

Anyway, before calling the power company, I used an AR8200 set to the AM mode and tuned to VHF frequencies and was able to locate the likely noise source. A bad connection at pole mounted insulators up top.
The RFI could be heard well into the UHF range as well so it was pretty bad.
For the VHF repeater signal, I could start hearing the RFI in the FM mode as far as a 1/2 mile away on my drive to or from work. It was much more obvious in the AM mode of course.

The power company here takes RFI reports seriously and had a guy out within 24 hours with detection equipment including a directional detector that uses ultrasonic for its mode. He also had the typical yagi's and even listened to the noise on my equipment as well as when hooked to my antennas.
He agreed on my findings plus found more noise sources which he called in for repair. They had it all repaired within 24 hours of my call.

I also looked at the noise on a scope and was able to determine it was indeed powerline noise.
Today, an RTL-SDR device would be ideal for something like this using nothing more than the SDR stick, a simple antenna and a suitable laptop. The signals can even be analayzed right on the laptop today. I wish I had those tools back when I did my troubleshooting but none of it had even been thought of yet. Heck, USB was still not a reality.

 

[below500kc]

Thanks all, excellent info in your replies. Paul, my interest is mainly the LF-MF range and this noise is horrible down that low. Its presence can be noticed clear up to the 20m band. I'm located in the country where radio enthusiasts would look around them (360 degree view of the sky to the horizon) and see that it's (should/could be) a "dream location" for radio reception.

Excellent idea about the rtl-sdr! I never thought of going that route. Yes, the advantage would be seeing the spectrum. Thanks also for the tips on handhelds that work those freqs on AM.

Kruser, sounds like you've had lots of experience with this issue. It's pretty bad when your vhf business repeaters get wiped out. :-( Not too many neighbors around and no "radio guys" but me to be affected. I sent the utility company (private-deregulated) an email and they just sent out their line crew that had no training on rf noise issues. I could "sic" the fcc on them but don't want to go that route.

My plan is to find the noise myself and then just give the utility the pole number.

 

[popnokick]

Now that we know exactly what you are trying to do, either / both of these may apply -
MFJ Enterprises Inc. MFJ-5008 ULTRA-SONIC RECEIVER W/PARABOLIC REFLECTOR, 18~DIA
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/PLN/Ultrasonic_Pinpointer.pdf

 

[prcguy]

I've successfully used both an AOR-8200MKIII and Yupiteru MVT-7100 with Yagi for finding interference. Not only do you want AM mode but also a good S meter with lots of range and attenuation and these two hand held receivers were barely ok for the task. I was able to find an HID type light in a parking lot that went bad and was arching inside, interfering with radio communication and C-band satellite reception at a satellite uplink facility. I also had a small portable spectrum analyzer with horn antenna to confirm C-band was being interfered along with the VHF/UHF bands.

On the RTL-SDR types, the last thing I would want to do is drag around a laptop and extra junk when walking around looking for interference. If you want or need a spectrum analyzer for interference testing get a real one with big dynamic range instead of the limited dynamic range of an RTL-SDR.

 

[JoshuaHufford]

I am going to follow this thread with interest as I am too having a problem with interference which I believe to be AC line noise. The problem goes away when it rains, and I have good audio samples if anyone wants to hear.

I haven't yet called the local power company because I wanted to try and track down the source myself first, however my Father-In-Law who owns the shop where my receive equipment is located said he has seen the transformer that supplies power to that very shop arcing at night, so I'd say there is a good chance that is the source of my problem.

Would a Uniden BC75XLT be of any help with tracking it down as described above?

What about a handheld AM radio?

kruser, Do you mind telling me what utility company you were dealing with? We aren't that far from each other. The supplier here is AmerenUE.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to address this with the power company as a hobbyist I'd appreciate it.

 

[below500kc]

I understand that the ultrasonic types will pinpoint right down to a specific insulator, if that's the problem. Good to know if it comes down to that. I think I have one thing going for me. The offending line runs along the road and dead ends only a mile North of me. The amount of "hardware" is minimal, so it's not like I have a maze of power wiring to deal with. What that means is that a small laptop running the rtl-sdr won't be too much of a burden. I'll just park the car and "tailgate" it. The road is very sparsely traveled. I can sort of get a few readings and triangulate. Another tip I got was that a neighbor said that a certain pole caught fire 3 times in about ten years. I'm going to start out there looking for the noise.

That must have been some sort of interference to affect C-band... wow. I never would have thought that high of freq would see that issue. I understand the need for good equipment if one had an ongoing need or problems with a large area. I just don't want to spend lots when the offending hardware area is quite small. Thanks for mentioning other handhelds also.

 

[kruser]

I am going to follow this thread with interest as I am too having a problem with interference which I believe to be AC line noise. The problem goes away when it rains, and I have good audio samples if anyone wants to hear.

I haven't yet called the local power company because I wanted to try and track down the source myself first, however my Father-In-Law who owns the shop where my receive equipment is located said he has seen the transformer that supplies power to that very shop arcing at night, so I'd say there is a good chance that is the source of my problem.

Would a Uniden BC75XLT be of any help with tracking it down as described above?

What about a handheld AM radio?

kruser, Do you mind telling me what utility company you were dealing with? We aren't that far from each other. The supplier here is AmerenUE.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to address this with the power company as a hobbyist I'd appreciate it.

Sorry Josh, I didn't see your question.
Yes, AmerenUE here as well.
When I first called about radio noise, they had a form they mailed me so I could explain my noise issue. Then they assigned something like an OMB number which creates a service ticket.
A ham operator who was now a RFI trouble tech for the old UE came out. Great guy and he gave me his personal cell number.
Over the years, UE became AmerenUE here and the guy I knew had retired. He was still there however and hooked me up with the guy doing his job in the St Louis area. He was also a great guy to work with until he also retired. So I was on my third RFI trouble guy when I lost his number.
All these guys were also ham operators which I think helped a ton as they knew what I was talking about.
The RFI techs would give me their personal cell numbers as their company phones are usually restricted to call from within the company itself.

I don't think the guys I knew did the Jeff City area as there was/is plenty of work for them right here!

I suspect you will need to start the process with Ameren from your end by calling and explaining your RFI issues. Include the fact that it stops when it rains when they ask the questions! My RFI usually always quit as well but it only took high humidity to tame most of it down.
They will ask things like frequencies the noise is detected on and some other technical stuff but that is all passed on to their RFI tech.
Give them a try as they were always very reactive in fixing noise issues here whenever I'd report anything.
If you do sniff out possible sources, try and relay that info to the guy that comes out as well. It can all help him/her.

One snag I did hit at first was getting the trouble ticket created. They usually require an account number associated with the address where you hear the noise. In my case, my apartment complex pays for electric so I had no account number. I had to wrangle through a few people before someone finally sent me the report paperwork to fill out. One time, they sent it to the apartment office in my name! The office still passed it on to me luckily.
When I'd tell the techs these stories is when they started giving me their personal cell numbers so I did not need to create a new report each time. Some of them would come out when the humidity was high or it was raining and find no noise. They would call me and ask me to call them when it comes back. When I did, if they were nearby, they would come right over and start sniffing. Once the found sources of noise, they would call in repair or trouble tickets and another crew would usually show up within 24 hours and work the tickets and problem solved!

Good luck in your quest to get this fixed. Be prepared to have the account info for the building where you hear the noise at. If I'm not mistaken, you have antennas at a relations metal building from reading your posts in another hobby group.

 

[JoshuaHufford]

Sorry Josh, I didn't see your question.
Yes, AmerenUE here as well.
When I first called about radio noise, they had a form they mailed me so I could explain my noise issue. Then they assigned something like an OMB number which creates a service ticket.
A ham operator who was now a RFI trouble tech for the old UE came out. Great guy and he gave me his personal cell number.
Over the years, UE became AmerenUE here and the guy I knew had retired. He was still there however and hooked me up with the guy doing his job in the St Louis area. He was also a great guy to work with until he also retired. So I was on my third RFI trouble guy when I lost his number.
All these guys were also ham operators which I think helped a ton as they knew what I was talking about.
The RFI techs would give me their personal cell numbers as their company phones are usually restricted to call from within the company itself.

I don't think the guys I knew did the Jeff City area as there was/is plenty of work for them right here!

I suspect you will need to start the process with Ameren from your end by calling and explaining your RFI issues. Include the fact that it stops when it rains when they ask the questions! My RFI usually always quit as well but it only took high humidity to tame most of it down.
They will ask things like frequencies the noise is detected on and some other technical stuff but that is all passed on to their RFI tech.
Give them a try as they were always very reactive in fixing noise issues here whenever I'd report anything.
If you do sniff out possible sources, try and relay that info to the guy that comes out as well. It can all help him/her.

One snag I did hit at first was getting the trouble ticket created. They usually require an account number associated with the address where you hear the noise. In my case, my apartment complex pays for electric so I had no account number. I had to wrangle through a few people before someone finally sent me the report paperwork to fill out. One time, they sent it to the apartment office in my name! The office still passed it on to me luckily.
When I'd tell the techs these stories is when they started giving me their personal cell numbers so I did not need to create a new report each time. Some of them would come out when the humidity was high or it was raining and find no noise. They would call me and ask me to call them when it comes back. When I did, if they were nearby, they would come right over and start sniffing. Once the found sources of noise, they would call in repair or trouble tickets and another crew would usually show up within 24 hours and work the tickets and problem solved!

Good luck in your quest to get this fixed. Be prepared to have the account info for the building where you hear the noise at. If I'm not mistaken, you have antennas at a relations metal building from reading your posts in another hobby group.

Thanks for your reply, it is good to hear that Ameren was so good to work with in RFI, hopefully things have not changed. I still not yet had any time to try and narrow down where the problem is coming from, hoping to do that soon. Getting the account number should not be a problem as the shop belongs to my Father-In-Law.

And yes it is the same building you have seen in another thread,