Outfitting an emergency response vehicle with, among other thing, a VHF aviation transceiver. What licensing do I need to be legal? I hold a Restricted Radio Operator Permit.
Needing some guidance...
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No license is required if your a pilot (of the aircraft), so unless his emergency response vehicle has wings or a rotor (which would make it awesome, its a different story, (I think, I can only google the answers about this) but there is a general idea that a ground station needs a different type of license.
I believe this is related to the question about wanting a shore station license for a portable, asked not long ago.
Thanks
Joel
Local Fire Department near me airport has airband portables in the apparatus that responds to the airport for aircraft emergencies. They operate under the airports license on the ground/unicom frequency to have comms with the tower.
Interesting... when in the air force, to talk to the tower we could only use LMR's,,, we had a/c band radios, but just to talk directly to aircraft... the tower would be furious if we went on to ATC frequencies, it could lead to way to much confusion.
I assume you've all been briefed on how you should never use the word "clear" even on their base ops (LMR) frequency.
The story with that is someone used the word "clear" when talking to the tower, while a tower mic was keyed on a frequency that was directing ground traffic,.... a pilot overheard it and taxi'd onto the runway. So we would always have to use the terminology "off the ruynway" (or overrun etc..)
Thanks
Joel
mmckenna
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87.18 covers this. Some aircraft stations are "license by rule". Everything else requires a license.
87.319 is probably something the OP should read. Actually, reading -all- of Part 87 would be wise, but 87.319 covers "Aviation Support Stations". You might qualify under the "Promotion of safety of life and property" line, however you'd be limited to just a couple of frequencies.
87.371-87.375 covers "Aeronautical Search and Rescue Stations". It has some specific requirements as to who can be licensed, you need to be a government agency or a "private organizations chartered to perform aeronautical search and rescue functions.". Again, limitations on what frequencies can be used.
mmckenna
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Sounds like shipboard communications. "Repeat" meant to fire the guns again. Taught to never ask someone to "repeat" anything they said.
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I'm a Fire Lieutenant/Paramedic AND a private pilot who works at the #1 Cargo and 3rd busiest commercial airport in the USA.
There is absolutely ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NO reason for any first responder OTHER than the "FIRE COMMANDER" (FAA Term, If you know, you know) during an actual incident to speak on any VHF Aircraft frequency. Stay OFF those frequencies, and who is "outfitting" this emergency vehicle; a local agency or a licensed Florida state contractor, or you "personally". You can quote all the statutes you want. I'm giving you reality and this sounds sketchy as hell. Ham Radio operators or scanner jockeys (like me) have no business on VHF Aviation period unless you are in the pilot seat or the Fire Commander seat speaking specifically to the PIC (Pilot in Command) of said aircraft encountering the incident.
I have had numerous occasions when I was flying CTAF VFR into smaller airports and I could hear a moron on a Boafeng.
There is absolutely ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NO reason for any first responder OTHER than the "FIRE COMMANDER" (FAA Term, If you know, you know) during an actual incident to speak on any VHF Aircraft frequency. Stay OFF those frequencies, and who is "outfitting" this emergency vehicle; a local agency or a licensed Florida state contractor, or you "personally". You can quote all the statutes you want. I'm giving you reality and this sounds sketchy as hell. Ham Radio operators or scanner jockeys (like me) have no business on VHF Aviation period unless you are in the pilot seat or the Fire Commander seat speaking specifically to the PIC (Pilot in Command) of said aircraft encountering the incident.
I have had numerous occasions when I was flying CTAF VFR into smaller airports and I could hear a moron on a Boafeng.
majoco
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When I was flying as a navaids inspector, I had to pass the "Flight Radio Telephone Operator" exam and other things of course. I could talk to the ground technicians as I had an aircraft band transceiver at my console but I would never talk to the tower without permission or had been requested to do so. When I quit that and became an aircraft engineer on the tarmac the ticket was sufficient to use the vehicle and handheld radios. Our aircraft had a company VHF frequency that we could talk to them on, but it was hammered into newbies that you do not touch the radios until you've done the course and passed the exam and you do not talk to anyone on an aircraft frequency other than the tower on the ground frequency and you do exactly as you are told, even if it's not where you wanted to go. Fortunately the vehicle radios had only the ground frequency which prevented incidents from listening on the wrong channel.
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Protocol for this particular airport if its on the tarmac comms between the tower and the IC are on the ground frequency. Comms between IC and the ground resources are on the appropriate LMR frequencies.
tvengr
Well Known Member
If you wanted someone to repeat a statement, the proper term to use was "Say Again" using military procedure in communications.
"I have had numerous occasions when I was flying CTAF VFR into smaller airports and I could hear a moron on a Boafeng. "
Boafeng makes AM handhelds? Look out Sporty's.. LOL
Many private companies have air band transceivers in their vehicles.. All ground vehicles MUST have comms with Ground Control OR be escorted while moving on the taxi ways..
Boafeng makes AM handhelds? Look out Sporty's.. LOL
Many private companies have air band transceivers in their vehicles.. All ground vehicles MUST have comms with Ground Control OR be escorted while moving on the taxi ways..
And...who exactly are you going to talk to?
mmckenna
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Which, as I'm sure you know, grants no privileges to any frequency.
From the FCC website Commercial Radio Operator License Program :
A commercial operator license does not constitute or imply FCC authorization to transmit radio signals. Before you operate any radio station, make certain that the station is licensed as required by the FCC.
Even as a GROL holder myself, all the systems I operate need to be properly licensed.
You are on the right track to make sure you or those you represent are properly licensed to transmit on the services you are looking for. Just don't be surprised if the FCC doesn't necessarily agree with the justification.
Although I understand what you are saying (hopefully), I can envision where even that could cause problems. Basically are they saying that the tower has to dial up a separate frequency on an ATC radio to talk with the incident commander, in the middle of the incident?
OR, If the IC is on the ground control ATC frequency, then it's another station that they have to deal with, a/c activities for a particular airfield don't necessarily stop when there is an emergency, the tower can tell everyone on the ground LMR frequency to hold all but incident communications (and they do that a lot when they are busy) , but other aircraft are something different, especially if they are on the runway and need to know what taxi way to turn off at.
Maybe it could work...
I'm just trying to think through possible potential problems.
Like Mmckenna said the FCC / FAA will be the decision makers, with input from the airport hopefully.
Thanks
Joel
Reading all of these posts, I'm detecting a possible point of confusion with a few of them...
There is an ATC frequency for the tower and aircraft to communicate, that usually deals with starting engines through getting on the runway and liftoff, (without bumping other airplanes), and the reverse.
There is another frequency that is for the tower to talk with non-aircraft, which would be things like base ops doing runway / taxiway checks, or METNAV (weather and navigation systems, now "airfield facilities") checking various things on the airfield for proper operation, or the people checking and fixing the lighting. This is done as an LMR. A backhoe that would do work near the runway would need to be escorted by someone with a flight-line drivers license AND would communicate with the tower using the LMR.
Thanks
Joel
There is an ATC frequency for the tower and aircraft to communicate, that usually deals with starting engines through getting on the runway and liftoff, (without bumping other airplanes), and the reverse.
There is another frequency that is for the tower to talk with non-aircraft, which would be things like base ops doing runway / taxiway checks, or METNAV (weather and navigation systems, now "airfield facilities") checking various things on the airfield for proper operation, or the people checking and fixing the lighting. This is done as an LMR. A backhoe that would do work near the runway would need to be escorted by someone with a flight-line drivers license AND would communicate with the tower using the LMR.
Thanks
Joel
prcguy
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While in the USCG AUX I requested and received NTIA authorization (a callsign) for VHF air frequencies, VHF marine shore station and many other govt freqs. I can only use it in support of the USCG.
I remember when stationed at the Naval Air Facility at Andrews, they had yellow 'Follow Me' trucks. I imagine they could communicate with the tower. Not sure if they talked to any aircraft.
The only ground vehicles that I remember aircraft type radios being installed in (at various bases) were the wing commanders vehicle, and maybe the vice, and they were mostly for UHF air (military--only) mostly for monitoring.
Thanks, Joel
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