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New Haven Engine 9

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leadjammer

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#1
Wondering if anyone has any opinions on the proposal to replace Engine 9 in New Haven with a Paramedic Emergency Unit. Neighborhood is against it and so is the Fire Union. I remember New Haven running three and maybe four emergency units a few years back. I also remember Engines 2, 3 and 7 removed from service many years ago. not to mention Trucks 5 and 6. This will certainly be a battle for the new chief whoever he might be.
 
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#2
"leadjammer", that was just mentioned to me the day before by a friend in New London FD. He had stated he read that there were plans to close New Havens Engine 9.

Let me say this, I have a few good friends within the NHFD and I will try to check into that. However, I do remember maybe two years ago there was talk of closing "Engine 8", NOT Engine 9, and replace that with the addition of Two more Emergency Units.

You are correct, at one time, there were Four Emergency Units. As I remember, they were in the following firehouses.
1) Emergency 1 w/Eng 4, Truck 1
2) Emergency 2 w/Eng 11, Truck 2
3) Emergency 3 w/Eng 5
4) Emergency 4 w/Eng 6/Truck 4

Engine 9 is one of the busiest engines in the city. So this really surprises me about Eng 9 as being closed. However, as you know, both Engine 8 and Engine 9 have Squad Cos in their firehouse as well.

I plan to send out a few text messages and emails today, and hopefully get a response from a few of these guys.

Just as a point of interest, as I remember, when Engine 3 and 7 were closed, they created the two Tactical Units, which later became Squads 1 and 2 as we know them today.

Also, based on a few facts, New Haven is the Third largest city in Connecticut, yet they are the busiest for number of runs, plus number of serious working building fires per year.

I salute every member of the Elm City's Bravest.
 
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#3
From "those in the know", there is NOTHING OFFICIAL of closing NHFD Engine 9.

As mentioned earlier, the people of this neighborhood are not about to watch THEIR local neighborhood engine company be closed down without a fight. The fire union also carries the right to go against this. We are talking one of the busiest engine companies in the city.

To quote one of those who responded to my text message: "This is what the Deputy Director of Emergency Management wants, but he is NOT in charge".
 
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#4
Willy, they wanted to close Engine 8 about 3-ish years ago under the same plan to add two more emergency units (E-Units). This would make Squad 1 have a first due area. Now its Engine 9 with Fontana's plan, who is a deputy emergency manager and shouldn't be messing around with the FD anyway. Its not in his job scope.

You were correct with where the E-units old locations. That is when there was one paramedic and three BLS units.
 
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#5
There is a new Type 3 ambulance that showed up down at the accedmy. looks like some ones left over on a gas f450 chassis. marked as E1

one of the bigger ambulances have been in the body shop on lombard street for over a month
 

leadjammer

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#6
According to the story in the New Haven Register FD in has just received two new Emergency Units, Maybe these are the two you saw on Lombard.
 

JimmyMac

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#7
When I got on the NHFD in '98 ( Academy ) there was ( 4 ) Emergency Units. There were three BLS Units and 1 ALS Unit.

Em-1 ( with E-8 )
Em-2 ( with E-9 )
Em-3 ( with E-4 / Trk 1 ) .. Only ALS Unit
Em-4 ( with E-11 / Trk 2 )


Then I believe sometime in 2000 the Squads came on duty. BLS Units came off duty and EM-1 was assigned to Woodward Av. station w/ E-5, EM-2 went on duty at the Howard Av. station w/ E-11 and Trk 2.These are both at the ALS level.


It was "fun" being assigned to EM-3 as the only citywide FD ALS unit !!!.
 

leadjammer

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#8
I go back to the 70;s in New Haven and back then they ran 3 emergency units. E1 at HQ, E-2 on Howard Ave and E-3 at Woodward. When E-4 came online later on all the units were reassigned. Naturally back in the 70's everyone was BLS as Paramedics hadn't been discovered yet. They also ran three additional engine and truck companies throughout the city. This was before squads and the downsizing of equipment in later years and sending engines out on all ems calls.
 
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#10
The Derby rig is old Engine 12's 1989(?) Pierce Arrow 1250/500 from Storm Engine Co. which was recently replaced. It was donated to the academy for use there. Also Car 47, the Pierce / Chevy mini pumper was old Engine 13 from Hotchkiss Hose Co. which was donated also (I believe) years ago.

I was at C-Med when the three BLS E-units were taken out of service and the engine companies began running to EMS runs out side of their first due districts. Before that the engine companies would run EMS in their due districts and if a covering company was responding, the first due engine would be re-assigned the EMS run when they became available. E-3 was the only ALS unit in the city running out of Grand Ave. E-3 became E-1 and moved to Woodward Ave and E-2 came back online as an ALS unit at Howard Ave as they run now. I know they wanted to put E-3 & 4 back online as ALS at some point, at least that was the talk around town back then.

As stated before, they wanted to close Engine 8 to do that a few years back, and also at one time Engine 17 was facing closing to do the same thing if I remember, at least that was the rumor on 17's. New Haven is busy enough to run two more E-units but should it be at the cost of closing an engine down and making a Squad run as first due? They have a heavy fire & specialize rescue load as this year has shown so far. Heck, for many years after Truck 5 was taken out of service from Fountain Street, there were rumors that they wanted a full truck company out of Woodward Ave area due to the bridges being closed and worked on despite Engine 5 being a quint back then.

I think the union and the membership is right, they need to keep Engine 9 open. Of course I'm on the outside looking in, the guys and gals of NHFD know what is right for their operations.
 
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#11
So we now find out a little bit more info regarding the "wishful closing" of a guy playing Fire Chief. Of course the Mayor supports him but the neighborhood and fire union does not.

This same individual was apparently responsible for the closing of South Central C-med a few years ago. Resulting in the lay offs of several dedicated employees. I understand now that some crews are waiting much longer for a direct patch into a hospital ER as a result of that closing.

Its also been reported that in playing Fire Chief, he likes to take charge on the fire ground. I say to the Brothers and Sisters of the NHFD, "let him do it". Just don't get yourself hurt or killed because of his lack of firefighting experience. Then let him answer for his own actions when something goes sour. See how quickly the mayor comes to his back up then.

I believe there are a few stories on this in some of the latest issues of the New Haven Register Newspaper, as well as a story on WTNH News about it.

As I've seen in the past, once something goes sour, the mayor usually takes a "No comment approach".
 

CentracomGold

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#13
Closing 8 or 9

Does Truck 2 still have Hurst tool? I remember years ago when "Tac 1 & Tac 2" were tied up they would use Truck 2 out of Howard Ave for extrication etc. Last November when Sq1 & Sq2 were tied up, they used Truck 2 to cover a rollover on Whitney Ave / East Rock Rd until a Squad freed up. The dispatcher did not know why but the DC working that day told her to send Truck 2 along with the first do company (10s because 8s was on a still)

When Truck 6 was decommissioned, the residents from East Rock were "up in arms" and made noise but it fell on deaf ears. Some of them were sold on getting a "tower & bucket" responding (Truck 1) instead of a stick.

The decision to close the Engine/Squad company is being made by a "wanna-be firefighter" Someone with such mentality should not be put in that position in the first place above all have authority to make decisions on such matters
 

CentracomGold

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#14
The Derby rig is old Engine 12's 1989(?) Pierce Arrow 1250/500 from Storm Engine Co. which was recently replaced. It was donated to the academy for use there. Also Car 47, the Pierce / Chevy mini pumper was old Engine 13 from Hotchkiss Hose Co. which was donated also (I believe) years ago.

I was at C-Med when the three BLS E-units were taken out of service and the engine companies began running to EMS runs out side of their first due districts. Before that the engine companies would run EMS in their due districts and if a covering company was responding, the first due engine would be re-assigned the EMS run when they became available. E-3 was the only ALS unit in the city running out of Grand Ave. E-3 became E-1 and moved to Woodward Ave and E-2 came back online as an ALS unit at Howard Ave as they run now. I know they wanted to put E-3 & 4 back online as ALS at some point, at least that was the talk around town back then.

As stated before, they wanted to close Engine 8 to do that a few years back, and also at one time Engine 17 was facing closing to do the same thing if I remember, at least that was the rumor on 17's. New Haven is busy enough to run two more E-units but should it be at the cost of closing an engine down and making a Squad run as first due? They have a heavy fire & specialize rescue load as this year has shown so far. Heck, for many years after Truck 5 was taken out of service from Fountain Street, there were rumors that they wanted a full truck company out of Woodward Ave area due to the bridges being closed and worked on despite Engine 5 being a quint back then.

I think the union and the membership is right, they need to keep Engine 9 open. Of course I'm on the outside looking in, the guys and gals of NHFD know what is right for their operations.
For a period of time (early 80's) Truck 3 was reassigned at 5's when the Grand Ave bridge was being replaced & the Ferry St bridge was having trouble. They ran out of there for the better part of a year. Truck 1 would split Grand Ave to Ferry & Truck 6 would cover north of Grand Ave (Lombard, Peck, State etc to Front St). We adjusted the box cards in Fair Haven & reprinted them again after 3 went back to Lombard St around 1983.
 
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#16
Does Truck 2 still have Hurst tool? I remember years ago when "Tac 1 & Tac 2" were tied up they would use Truck 2 out of Howard Ave for extrication etc. Last November when Sq1 & Sq2 were tied up, they used Truck 2 to cover a rollover on Whitney Ave / East Rock Rd until a Squad freed up. The dispatcher did not know why but the DC working that day told her to send Truck 2 along with the first do company (10s because 8s was on a still)

When Truck 6 was decommissionoed, the residents from East Rock were "up in arms" and made noise but it fell on deaf ears. Some of them were sold on getting a "tower & bucket" responding (Truck 1) instead of a stick.

The decision to close the Engine/Squad company is being made by a "wanna-be firefighter" Someone with such mentality should not be put in that position in the first place above all have authority to make decisions on such matters
These are frustrated individuals who take out their feelings on those that hold firefighter positions.

Let me also add that it is not only the extrication equipment that was tied up during that MVA on I95 but the high angle rope rescue, confined space, Haz mat, PLUS the specially trained and certified firefighters as well. That point also needs to be considered.
 
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#17
As for Fontana being a want-to-be firefighter he was a West Haven firefighter for 28 years until he broke his hip. But I totally agree he has no authority interfering in any way on the New Haven fireground.
 
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#18
As for Fontana being a want-to-be firefighter he was a West Haven firefighter for 28 years until he broke his hip. But I totally agree he has no authority interfering in any way on the New Haven fireground.
Thank you for that info.

With that in his background, we can no longer say that he is a "Wanna Be Firefighter". "Maybe a Wanna Be Fire Commander" is more like it.

I don't understand how any former firefighter would want to encourage the closing of ANY firehouse. Knowing very well the results of what could happen and how very important it is to get that first line in operation flowing water. Minutes and seconds DO matter. And there are plenty of you tube videos out there to show just that.

To encourage the opening of two more Emergency units, I think can speak for itself. But don't suggest closing a very busy neighborhood firehouse to do it. Both are a vital part of that city. Citizens lives are at stake and putting a potential fire death against a potential medical death should not be used against each other.

Was closing South Central C-Med a good decision ? Not according to some people who used it over the years. Would closing Engine 9 be a good decision for the people who need that first line put into place to help save them ? For most of us here, "we won't be affected by this, BUT THEY WILL".

Could Engine 9 be made into a Paramedic Engine Co, staffed with at least one medic carrying medic equipment like so many other Engine Cos around the country. Could other Engine Cos throughout the city do the same ? You don't have to look too far outside of New Haven to find examples of that.

That keeps Engine 9 in service and still provides ALS care. Maybe Mr Fontana might consider that as a win/win for everybody. And what do you think Mr Mayor ? Would people in that neighborhood consider you their hero if you offered that to them and still kept that firehouse open. What do you think there Chief ? Do you think you could maybe work something out with those firefighters and make that possible ?

Maybe before anybody is so willing to close a busy city firehouse, just maybe you should look into that. Mention that to the people of the area. Think they won't like that idea. Tell them you thought about it and that seems like the best idea that you can offer to keep EVERYBODY happen. I bet even those medics running in those EUs would welcome that idea.

You can win a lot more friends with this idea, instead of proposing the closing of that Engine 9.
 

CentracomGold

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Well said Anti, well said. Look at all of the companies that closed in New Haven & it was always met with angry citizens but it always fell on deaf ears to the city admin. Closing Engine 1 (circa 1950's) then having the Hill Section burn in the late '60s made 11's a nightmare. When Engine 2 was decommissioned in 1978 The Chamber of Commerce hemmed & hawed for losing a piece downtown. Albeit it did not have a still area at the time it would cover a busy house. When Engine 3 was decommissioned in 1981 (the same day Engine 7 closed shop) & replaced by Tactical Unit 1 it was done under the radar & it was transparent to the respective neighborhoods. Engine 3 had the largest still area & was on almost every box west of State St extending to the Hill to Westville & Newhallville Engine 7 had a smaller still area around Middletown Ave above Route 80. When Engine 12 on Crown St closed, again many of the merchants downtown were in an uproar as well as the men assigned there. When they closed it, it was the busiest piece. When the city closed 14's from Highland St & relocated it to Whitney Ave it was decommissioned after 8 months. The neighbors in the affluent East Rock again were in a tizzy & again it fell on deaf ears with the city admin. The same when Truck 6 was shuttered in 1987 giving Truck 3 the largest first due area in the city second to Truck 4 after shuttering Truck 5 around 1994. I was surprised that 17s is still functioning after the city toyed with the idea of closing it several years ago but the Mayor (at that time) knew that he would lose the Bella Vista vote & kept it open

It is silly to close any house be it 2 engine or stand alone it puts many lives in danger.
 

leadjammer

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#20
Thanks for all that info. I was unaware of Engine 1 in New Haven (a little before my time) and also had no idea of an Engine 12 and 14.

And getting back to C-MED, no one in their right mind would think it was a good idea shutting it down. What they have replaced it with is basically a joke. But most of the towns thought it was too expensive and were looking to get out. I miss it, that's for sure. Made for great scanner listening, no doubt about that.
 
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