• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

New Jersey Interoperability Communication System (NJ ICS)

Murenovich

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
118
Location
Not the Flatlands, Not the Mountains in NJ
I can tell you from experience that those specialized units that have APX6000s from NJSP on the ICS would have to force (site scan) the radio manually to get on Union vs West Orange. Might have to do with the fact that Union gives priority to their county users as they just share the State Core and the APX has preferred sites set up in the codeplug with Union not being one of them. Also has to do with the amount of APX radios that are out there for regular marked unit as I can confirm that the APX in a newer unmarked ONLY has the Smartzone system and no ICS programmed in. And finally, it has to do with those specialized units with APX radios affiliating to that talkgroup. Most of the time they are on the INV talkgroups (B2-21 and up).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lots of good info in one post, where to start lol When you say the county uses the state system as its core is that why the union county simulcast is the only one with 800 frequencies, the same 800 frequencies that made up the old EDACS system? I always just figured it was because the county still had the licenses for them and they added capacity to what seems to be an extremely active site on ICS.

As for the affiliating with the ICS sites, so the reason you get the regular NJSP traffic in the comm TG's on ICS is just because those CIB units have those channels in their APX's so it simulcasts the regular chatter of units on the 800 system over to the 700 even tho they arent actually using radios on the ICS system?

Just trying to make sure i understand how it allll works. Thanks!
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
2,990
Location
Fortified Bunker
Like I said, certain specialized units are using APX6000 portables that ONLY have the NJICS system programmed in. When that radio is turned on and affiliates, whatever site and talkgroup it’s on will carry the traffic from the Smartzone system over to the NJICS system via the SmartX site converter. There are a limited number of portables that have the NJICS programmed in (that number may have gone up) but I can confirm that a recent install in an unmarked NJSP unit ONLY had the SMARTZONE system programmed in the APX6500 mobile (O7 head) and that individual is assigned to a specialized unit. If you listen to either system, you can tell which one they are transmitting on due to the analog/digital conversion, vice versa. The main site that would be used is West Orange, so you will see limited traffic on many other sites. Additionally, remember the radio affiliates every time the channel is changed to let the controller know to route that talkgroup to the subscriber.

So what sucks is when that individual switches from one talkgroup to another on NJICS, he can only scan the talkgroup that it’s on, unless of course another subscriber is on the other talkgroup he wants to scan.

So let’s say I’m on B2-21 on surveillance...I can’t hear B2-5 traffic unless someone else is affiliated on their subscriber (and it’s obviously in my scan list). Since some talkgroups are full-time (like B2-4) (I think a radio is affiliated full time at Totowa), I can scan B2-4 while parked on B2-21. Make sense ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
2,990
Location
Fortified Bunker
Yes, Union County brought over their 800 frequencies from their old EDACS system and added them to their sites in order to increase capacity. Union County shares the NJICS Core with the State (hence the same system ID) but maintains their own sites at the County level. This allows for seamless roaming across other sites instead of having to ISSI8000 between systems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

r60

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
539
B2-5 used to be heard equally w B2-4 on Union County. I would think they dropped that patch and it is now only by affiliations, I agree Zero. As a side note B2-5 does not appear on Martinsville either. Interesting that B2-4 has remained. DOT safety units TG’s remain too. I have not heard DOT IMART though.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
2,990
Location
Fortified Bunker
Nope. Newark Fire consoles are on the West Orange simulcast. If a portable roams over to Union County Simulcast, the talkgroup that the portable is on will appear on that simulcast regardless of what site the console is on. I could take a subscriber down to Cape May and affiliate to that site if permissions are set to allow it and it will magically carry Newark Fire.

Now, things can be set to carry a talkgroup full-time on multiple sites regardless of affiliation. All depends on how it’s set up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
1,010
Location
basking ridge nj
So what you are saying is... As long as any portables happen to affiliate with the Union County site, even on a receive only basis..then any original Newark fire Department dispatch calls will affiliate with the Union County site and will be heard over the Union County site, which is now the case

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
6,843
Location
BEE00
So what you are saying is... As long as any portables happen to affiliate with the Union County site, even on a receive only basis..then any original Newark fire Department dispatch calls will affiliate with the Union County site and will be heard over the Union County site, which is now the case
I'm not sure why you keep referring to "calls" affiliating with sites. Calls do not affiliate with sites, subscribers (radios) do.

Any subscriber (mobile, portable, consolette) that affiliates with a particular talkgroup at a particular site will cause that talkgroup's traffic to be carried at that site, assuming the talkgroup is permitted at the site in question. Talkgroups can be restricted from being carried on a site by site basis if desired (e.g. the NJ PIP PD talkgroups are not permitted on sites like High Point, Walpack, etc.)

As far as "receive only basis", that would only apply to a legitimate subscriber if certain talkgroups are setup in the codeplug as TG/AG Disabled, which would prohibit the radio from transmitting on a talkgroup. It would not, however, prevent the radio from logging into the system and affiliating with a talkgroup. Note that I'm talking about legitimate subscribers on the system, not someone with a non-affiliate scan properly setup. That would neither affiliate with the system nor be able to cause a talkgroup to be carried at any site.
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
1,014
Location
NYC Metro
Nope. Newark Fire consoles are on the West Orange simulcast. If a portable roams over to Union County Simulcast, the talkgroup that the portable is on will appear on that simulcast regardless of what site the console is on. I could take a subscriber down to Cape May and affiliate to that site if permissions are set to allow it and it will magically carry Newark Fire.

Now, things can be set to carry a talkgroup full-time on multiple sites regardless of affiliation. All depends on how it’s set up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What exactly causes a portable to "roam"? Does that mean someone keyed up the radio and it was out of range of West Orange, so it affiliated to Union? And after that happens, what would "release" Newark Fire from the Union County simulcast? They have been coming in over UC for several days now.
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
6,843
Location
BEE00
What exactly causes a portable to "roam"? Does that mean someone keyed up the radio and it was out of range of West Orange, so it affiliated to Union? And after that happens, what would "release" Newark Fire from the Union County simulcast? They have been coming in over UC for several days now.
Without getting too deep into it, essentially the radio measures the RSSI of the current site's control channel at regular intervals. If the RSSI drops below a predetermined level, the radio will reference the adjacent sites lists that are broadcast over the control channel, and will check for a control channel at a neighboring site with a higher RSSI. If it finds one, it will register at the new site, and will broadcast an affiliation request for the current talkgroup. If the talkgroup is permitted at the new site, the affiliation request will be granted. Once successful, the site will carry that talkgroup's traffic (assuming it wasn't already). If the talkgroup is not permitted at that site, the affiliation request will be denied, and the radio will try a different site, if available, otherwise it will try to remain on the original site.

The above is true for any radio, portable or mobile. Even a stationary desktop consolette can occasionally roam to a different site if RF conditions cause it. The radios need not transmit to cause it to roam, just a change in RSSI. The levels are defined in the codeplug, and therefore can vary from radio to radio.

The talkgroup will "release" from a site once the last affiliated subscriber either deregisters, or changes sites. Those two conditions require the radio to interact with the system, so there is a third condition, which is that the talkgroup eventually times out at the site after a predetermined amount of time (e.g. 6 hours).
 

kd2pm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
145
Location
East Windsor NJ
Keep in mind also that the radio ID's can be restricted from a site so affiliation of the terminal as well as permission of the TG have to be met. Our system is open but we do have the capability to restrict users from different sites as well as talkgroups. My State APX will not affiliate on a TG on the Cranbury site but will allow me on Statecom on the Cranbury site. The flexibility of allowing TG's or ID's at a per site level allows admins who bring on certain agencies to make sure they dont get more than what they paid for.
 

edisonfire

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
74
Consider that in the case of Newark, a chief officer or high ranking official may travel home with his radio. In that case his radio would affiliate with whatever tower he is closest to and likely remain that way through the weekend. That's why sometimes you get hit/miss regarding hearing a particular agency, especially over a weekend.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
1,672
Location
coastal/eastern Monmouth NJ
Consider that in the case of Newark, a chief officer or high ranking official may travel home with his radio. In that case his radio would affiliate with whatever tower he is closest to and likely remain that way through the weekend. That's why sometimes you get hit/miss regarding hearing a particular agency, especially over a weekend.
If I ever knew the answer to this, I have forgotten it. Does the radio need to be on, for this to happen ? . Maybe not fire, but I know very few police officer's, that monitor their dept. while off duty.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
2,990
Location
Fortified Bunker
Yes, radio has to be on. If you are running Unitrunker software, you can actually see when I turn my radio on, you can watch me flip through all my talkgroups (if I do it slow enough) and can see when I turn it off. All without me speaking a word.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
2,990
Location
Fortified Bunker
As I get older and more salty, I’ve found myself listening less and less. I do still enjoy listening to the FD though...Maybe because that’s where I first started when I was 16. But at home my radios for the most part stay off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Top