• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

New Jersey Interoperability Communication System (NJ ICS)

Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
198
Able to catch a RID dude?


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I was stupid enough to delete my logs, so I don't have it now.
If I catch them again I'll be sure to post it here.
The only thing I can state with certainty is that they were both IDs not listed on Nosoup4u's RID list.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
25
Location
Morris County, NJ
Not sure how much NJSP traffic is on Randolph or Netcong if any. NJSP is patched into NJ ICS. it's not their primary means of communication.
Mark, I sent my SDS100 out for repair, my knob had come off. Told them to look it over completely, it was under warranty. I now pick up ICS- based on the frequencies I receive Washington and Netcong. I guess this explains why no State Police. I guess I am too far away. Radio was returned and is as good as new. Took just over 1 month, however.
 

ht396jm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
68
Location
NJ
Is there any sort of guarantee that state agencies using the 800mhz motorola system will have audio simulcasted onto NJICS through the SmartX site converters like the NJSP utilizes? I know if you divide the 800 talkgroups by 16 you will end up with an NJICS talkgroup but is there any sort of concrete standard that all or most of the talkgroups would simulcast?

Also, is that one-way deal? For example, would any NJICS transmissions simulcast onto the 800 system?

I read a very detailed article about this once upon a time written by one of the moderators here but I can't seem to find it now. If anybody knows the article or blog I'm referring to I'd love to look at it again.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
3,009
Location
Fortified Bunker
There are a few APX6000 radios that NJSP specialized units have that ONLY have NJICS programmed in. The channel layout is exactly the same as the XTS2500 that has the Smartzone programmed. As the user flips the channel selector knob and affiliations occur, the talkgroup from the Smartzone will be carried over to NJICS. The 6000 user will come across the Smartzone and XTS2500 user will come across NJICS. You can hear the digital to analog and analog to digital if you listen closely.


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GTR8000

Well Known Member
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Messages
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BEE00
Is there any sort of guarantee that state agencies using the 800mhz motorola system will have audio simulcasted onto NJICS through the SmartX site converters like the NJSP utilizes? I know if you divide the 800 talkgroups by 16 you will end up with an NJICS talkgroup but is there any sort of concrete standard that all or most of the talkgroups would simulcast?

Also, is that one-way deal? For example, would any NJICS transmissions simulcast onto the 800 system?

I read a very detailed article about this once upon a time written by one of the moderators here but I can't seem to find it now. If anybody knows the article or blog I'm referring to I'd love to look at it again.
I've commented on this stuff a few times over the years, so you may've read something I wrote. Or not lol, either way.

The simplest answer is "no, there is no guarantee"

Expanding on that, the more vague answer is "it depends", as there are a few variables at play here.

The most important variable is that the NJICS system is comprised of many individual standalone sites, along with a few simulcast cells. ASTRO 25 (Motorola P25) systems are by nature designed to default towards conserving channel resources. If a standalone site only has a limited pool of 3-4 channels (one of which is a full-time control channel), then you want to make sure you're not wasting channels by having talkgroups broadcasting at that site that aren't required by the users in the area. In that respect, the system is designed to only carry talkgroup traffic when a radio registered at the site is affiliated with said talkgroup(s).

Of course there are always exceptions to the basic rules, and in this case, the exception is that the system administrators can "force" any talkgroup they want to be carried at any site(s) they want, regardless of whether any radios are affiliated with those talkgroups at said sites. There are some examples of those talkgroups on the NJICS which seem to be carried at every site 24/7 no matter what, DEP Park Police Dispatch seemingly being one of them.

As far as the SmartX converters are concerned, they simply allow for the matching talkgroups to be linked together on both systems. The link is bidirectional, so that no matter which system a radio is operating on, the audio will be heard on the same talkgroup on the other system. The caveat is as noted above, that at least one radio must be affiliated with that talkgroup at one or more sites on the other system, or the talkgroups must be forced by the system admins to be carried regardless of affiliation status. If neither of those criteria are met, then the talkgroup will remain active on only one system. The default setting is "on-demand", so to speak.

That's why often the NJSP talkgroups come and go across various sites on the NJICS system. If a 700 MHz radio happens to affiliate with 2-COMM in northwest Sussex County, it will cause the 2-COMM talkgroup to be carried on High Point. If that radio roams south, it will eventually find a stronger signal from the Walpack site, at which point two things will happen: #1 the radio will deregister from High Point, causing the 2-COMM talkgroup to stop being carried at that site (assuming no other radios are affiliated with that talkgroup at that site), and #2 the radio will register on Walpack and will cause the 2-COMM talkgroup to follow it to that site.

The same holds true for talkgroups that are primarily on the NJICS system now. Even if there is a matching counterpart on the 800 system (DRJTBC talkgroups, for example), they will only be heard if #1 a radio is affiliated with one of the 800 MHz simulcast cells, or #2 they are being forced to be carried on the 800 MHz even in the absence of any radios actually registered on 800 MHz and affiliated with one of those talkgroups.

Oh and finally, talkgroups can actually be restricted by site. Newark Fire talkgroups, for example, are only permitted on certain sites. A radio that tries to affiliate with one of those talkgroups on High Point in Sussex County is going to be denied affiliation. This is also to preserve channel resources. Other talkgroups are permitted at any site throughout the state.

Basically, there is quite a bit of flexibility in how these systems operate, and therefore the answer is wholly dependent on how the systems and individual talkgroups are setup.
 

ht396jm

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Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
68
Location
NJ
I've commented on this stuff a few times over the years, so you may've read something I wrote. Or not lol, either way.

The simplest answer is "no, there is no guarantee"

Expanding on that, the more vague answer is "it depends", as there are a few variables at play here.

The most important variable is that the NJICS system is comprised of many individual standalone sites, along with a few simulcast cells. ASTRO 25 (Motorola P25) systems are by nature designed to default towards conserving channel resources. If a standalone site only has a limited pool of 3-4 channels (one of which is a full-time control channel), then you want to make sure you're not wasting channels by having talkgroups broadcasting at that site that aren't required by the users in the area. In that respect, the system is designed to only carry talkgroup traffic when a radio registered at the site is affiliated with said talkgroup(s).

Of course there are always exceptions to the basic rules, and in this case, the exception is that the system administrators can "force" any talkgroup they want to be carried at any site(s) they want, regardless of whether any radios are affiliated with those talkgroups at said sites. There are some examples of those talkgroups on the NJICS which seem to be carried at every site 24/7 no matter what, DEP Park Police Dispatch seemingly being one of them.

As far as the SmartX converters are concerned, they simply allow for the matching talkgroups to be linked together on both systems. The link is bidirectional, so that no matter which system a radio is operating on, the audio will be heard on the same talkgroup on the other system. The caveat is as noted above, that at least one radio must be affiliated with that talkgroup at one or more sites on the other system, or the talkgroups must be forced by the system admins to be carried regardless of affiliation status. If neither of those criteria are met, then the talkgroup will remain active on only one system. The default setting is "on-demand", so to speak.

That's why often the NJSP talkgroups come and go across various sites on the NJICS system. If a 700 MHz radio happens to affiliate with 2-COMM in northwest Sussex County, it will cause the 2-COMM talkgroup to be carried on High Point. If that radio roams south, it will eventually find a stronger signal from the Walpack site, at which point two things will happen: #1 the radio will deregister from High Point, causing the 2-COMM talkgroup to stop being carried at that site (assuming no other radios are affiliated with that talkgroup at that site), and #2 the radio will register on Walpack and will cause the 2-COMM talkgroup to follow it to that site.

The same holds true for talkgroups that are primarily on the NJICS system now. Even if there is a matching counterpart on the 800 system (DRJTBC talkgroups, for example), they will only be heard if #1 a radio is affiliated with one of the 800 MHz simulcast cells, or #2 they are being forced to be carried on the 800 MHz even in the absence of any radios actually registered on 800 MHz and affiliated with one of those talkgroups.

Oh and finally, talkgroups can actually be restricted by site. Newark Fire talkgroups, for example, are only permitted on certain sites. A radio that tries to affiliate with one of those talkgroups on High Point in Sussex County is going to be denied affiliation. This is also to preserve channel resources. Other talkgroups are permitted at any site throughout the state.

Basically, there is quite a bit of flexibility in how these systems operate, and therefore the answer is wholly dependent on how the systems and individual talkgroups are setup.

Thanks for this, I appreciate the time you took to reply.
 

ht396jm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
68
Location
NJ
Do any of the NJICS sites get “turned off” for any reason? For example, would the ramapo site stop producing a control channel during specific times? Reason I ask is because I very rarely get signals from the ramapo and alpine sites during the overnight hours and I’m smack in between both of them.
 

GTR8000

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Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
6,969
Location
BEE00
Do any of the NJICS sites get “turned off” for any reason? For example, would the ramapo site stop producing a control channel during specific times? Reason I ask is because I very rarely get signals from the ramapo and alpine sites during the overnight hours and I’m smack in between both of them.
No. Every site in the system (except the mobile site) is in operation 24/7/365, unless there is a significant failure. It's a very rare event even for the control channels to roll over to one of the alternates, so you'll find that 99% of the time each site's control channel is on the primary frequency as indicated in the RR database.

To emphasize the point, both of the sites you mention carry a fair bit of traffic even during the overnight hours. Alpine is one of the primary sites for the NJ PIPPD, and Ramapo for the Passaic County Sheriff.
 

RadioDitch

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Joined
Jan 24, 2010
Messages
1,893
Location
Nomadic
New TG 4815 Radio 2011092 I think this is New Providence pd ???
It would be New Providence, I think a PD mobile. As far as I know Mountain Valley ECC RIDs won't come up on the NJICS as an individual town, and I'm not even sure their gear is working yet (could be wrong).
 

MARTY187

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Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
52
Location
Linden NJ
It would be New Providence, I think a PD mobile. As far as I know Mountain Valley ECC RIDs won't come up on the NJICS as an individual town, and I'm not even sure their gear is working yet (could be wrong).
Over the last few weeks, I have observed dispatch with 2026xxx ID's which I believe corresponds to Mountain Valley and the units are 2011xxx. I submitted this for the database, but it should be noted they simulcast with their 460.1375 presently.

I also believe New Providence FD operates on TG 4819, but need more confirmation on that.
 

MARTY187

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Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
52
Location
Linden NJ
Continuing with New Providence, I heard EMS communications on TG 4819 but did not hear the initial dispatch, so not able to determine if dispatch channel or just operations? Anyone else with info on this?
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2003
Messages
204
Location
West Caldwell, NJ
Just wondering if they've recently commissioned a new simulcast transmitter on the West Orange site in or around the Caldwells? I used to get all kinds of LSM distortion on my 996P2 on the local phase two talkgroups, but most are coming in much clearer now. Still having multipath issues receiving North Caldwell/Essex Fells PD on TG4655, but Montclair, Verona, and Newark FD are now much clearer than they have been in the past.
 
Joined
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Messages
3,009
Location
Fortified Bunker
Just wondering if they've recently commissioned a new simulcast transmitter on the West Orange site in or around the Caldwells? I used to get all kinds of LSM distortion on my 996P2 on the local phase two talkgroups, but most are coming in much clearer now. Still having multipath issues receiving North Caldwell/Essex Fells PD on TG4655, but Montclair, Verona, and Newark FD are now much clearer than they have been in the past.
I don’t understand your question. You stated you used to get all kinds of LSM distortion on local Phase II talkgroups, but then state that you’re hearing other agencies clearer. They are all on the same simulcast site and all using TDMA ?????


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Joined
Mar 24, 2003
Messages
204
Location
West Caldwell, NJ
Yes, they are all phase two TGs on West Orange Simulcast. The agencies that I'd had some difficulty receiving in the past due to what I perceived as multi-path distortion or LSM problems, most of those same TGs are now much easier to understand. So my question is what changed? Just atmospherics today or have they added another transmitter location to the West Orange Simulcast site, or re-oriented the antenna(s)?

I confess that my knowledge of these systems is rudimentary at best, but I was under the impression that there were multiple transmitters/towers in Essex County that all came up at once when an affiliated TG on the West Orange Simulcast site keyed up, and the distortion that scanner users experienced was receiving the same data from multiple towers. I was just curious if a new, closer tower was set up that my 996P2's receiver was capturing full quieting. In West Caldwell, I'm sort of right in the middle between Riker Hill, West Orange, and (to a lesser degree) Garret Mountain.

My RX antenna is tiny mag mount sitting on the power supply inside. I'm not complaining about the better decoded audio quality, I'm just trying to figure out what changed, since I haven't done anything differently on my end in over a year.
 
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