• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

New Jersey Interoperability Communication System (NJ ICS)

Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
194
Able to catch a RID dude?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was stupid enough to delete my logs, so I don't have it now.
If I catch them again I'll be sure to post it here.
The only thing I can state with certainty is that they were both IDs not listed on Nosoup4u's RID list.
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2004
Messages
25
Location
Morris County, NJ
Not sure how much NJSP traffic is on Randolph or Netcong if any. NJSP is patched into NJ ICS. it's not their primary means of communication.
Mark, I sent my SDS100 out for repair, my knob had come off. Told them to look it over completely, it was under warranty. I now pick up ICS- based on the frequencies I receive Washington and Netcong. I guess this explains why no State Police. I guess I am too far away. Radio was returned and is as good as new. Took just over 1 month, however.
 

ht396jm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
60
Location
NJ
Is there any sort of guarantee that state agencies using the 800mhz motorola system will have audio simulcasted onto NJICS through the SmartX site converters like the NJSP utilizes? I know if you divide the 800 talkgroups by 16 you will end up with an NJICS talkgroup but is there any sort of concrete standard that all or most of the talkgroups would simulcast?

Also, is that one-way deal? For example, would any NJICS transmissions simulcast onto the 800 system?

I read a very detailed article about this once upon a time written by one of the moderators here but I can't seem to find it now. If anybody knows the article or blog I'm referring to I'd love to look at it again.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
2,987
Location
Fortified Bunker
There are a few APX6000 radios that NJSP specialized units have that ONLY have NJICS programmed in. The channel layout is exactly the same as the XTS2500 that has the Smartzone programmed. As the user flips the channel selector knob and affiliations occur, the talkgroup from the Smartzone will be carried over to NJICS. The 6000 user will come across the Smartzone and XTS2500 user will come across NJICS. You can hear the digital to analog and analog to digital if you listen closely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
6,824
Location
BEE00
Is there any sort of guarantee that state agencies using the 800mhz motorola system will have audio simulcasted onto NJICS through the SmartX site converters like the NJSP utilizes? I know if you divide the 800 talkgroups by 16 you will end up with an NJICS talkgroup but is there any sort of concrete standard that all or most of the talkgroups would simulcast?

Also, is that one-way deal? For example, would any NJICS transmissions simulcast onto the 800 system?

I read a very detailed article about this once upon a time written by one of the moderators here but I can't seem to find it now. If anybody knows the article or blog I'm referring to I'd love to look at it again.
I've commented on this stuff a few times over the years, so you may've read something I wrote. Or not lol, either way.

The simplest answer is "no, there is no guarantee"

Expanding on that, the more vague answer is "it depends", as there are a few variables at play here.

The most important variable is that the NJICS system is comprised of many individual standalone sites, along with a few simulcast cells. ASTRO 25 (Motorola P25) systems are by nature designed to default towards conserving channel resources. If a standalone site only has a limited pool of 3-4 channels (one of which is a full-time control channel), then you want to make sure you're not wasting channels by having talkgroups broadcasting at that site that aren't required by the users in the area. In that respect, the system is designed to only carry talkgroup traffic when a radio registered at the site is affiliated with said talkgroup(s).

Of course there are always exceptions to the basic rules, and in this case, the exception is that the system administrators can "force" any talkgroup they want to be carried at any site(s) they want, regardless of whether any radios are affiliated with those talkgroups at said sites. There are some examples of those talkgroups on the NJICS which seem to be carried at every site 24/7 no matter what, DEP Park Police Dispatch seemingly being one of them.

As far as the SmartX converters are concerned, they simply allow for the matching talkgroups to be linked together on both systems. The link is bidirectional, so that no matter which system a radio is operating on, the audio will be heard on the same talkgroup on the other system. The caveat is as noted above, that at least one radio must be affiliated with that talkgroup at one or more sites on the other system, or the talkgroups must be forced by the system admins to be carried regardless of affiliation status. If neither of those criteria are met, then the talkgroup will remain active on only one system. The default setting is "on-demand", so to speak.

That's why often the NJSP talkgroups come and go across various sites on the NJICS system. If a 700 MHz radio happens to affiliate with 2-COMM in northwest Sussex County, it will cause the 2-COMM talkgroup to be carried on High Point. If that radio roams south, it will eventually find a stronger signal from the Walpack site, at which point two things will happen: #1 the radio will deregister from High Point, causing the 2-COMM talkgroup to stop being carried at that site (assuming no other radios are affiliated with that talkgroup at that site), and #2 the radio will register on Walpack and will cause the 2-COMM talkgroup to follow it to that site.

The same holds true for talkgroups that are primarily on the NJICS system now. Even if there is a matching counterpart on the 800 system (DRJTBC talkgroups, for example), they will only be heard if #1 a radio is affiliated with one of the 800 MHz simulcast cells, or #2 they are being forced to be carried on the 800 MHz even in the absence of any radios actually registered on 800 MHz and affiliated with one of those talkgroups.

Oh and finally, talkgroups can actually be restricted by site. Newark Fire talkgroups, for example, are only permitted on certain sites. A radio that tries to affiliate with one of those talkgroups on High Point in Sussex County is going to be denied affiliation. This is also to preserve channel resources. Other talkgroups are permitted at any site throughout the state.

Basically, there is quite a bit of flexibility in how these systems operate, and therefore the answer is wholly dependent on how the systems and individual talkgroups are setup.
 

ht396jm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
60
Location
NJ
I've commented on this stuff a few times over the years, so you may've read something I wrote. Or not lol, either way.

The simplest answer is "no, there is no guarantee"

Expanding on that, the more vague answer is "it depends", as there are a few variables at play here.

The most important variable is that the NJICS system is comprised of many individual standalone sites, along with a few simulcast cells. ASTRO 25 (Motorola P25) systems are by nature designed to default towards conserving channel resources. If a standalone site only has a limited pool of 3-4 channels (one of which is a full-time control channel), then you want to make sure you're not wasting channels by having talkgroups broadcasting at that site that aren't required by the users in the area. In that respect, the system is designed to only carry talkgroup traffic when a radio registered at the site is affiliated with said talkgroup(s).

Of course there are always exceptions to the basic rules, and in this case, the exception is that the system administrators can "force" any talkgroup they want to be carried at any site(s) they want, regardless of whether any radios are affiliated with those talkgroups at said sites. There are some examples of those talkgroups on the NJICS which seem to be carried at every site 24/7 no matter what, DEP Park Police Dispatch seemingly being one of them.

As far as the SmartX converters are concerned, they simply allow for the matching talkgroups to be linked together on both systems. The link is bidirectional, so that no matter which system a radio is operating on, the audio will be heard on the same talkgroup on the other system. The caveat is as noted above, that at least one radio must be affiliated with that talkgroup at one or more sites on the other system, or the talkgroups must be forced by the system admins to be carried regardless of affiliation status. If neither of those criteria are met, then the talkgroup will remain active on only one system. The default setting is "on-demand", so to speak.

That's why often the NJSP talkgroups come and go across various sites on the NJICS system. If a 700 MHz radio happens to affiliate with 2-COMM in northwest Sussex County, it will cause the 2-COMM talkgroup to be carried on High Point. If that radio roams south, it will eventually find a stronger signal from the Walpack site, at which point two things will happen: #1 the radio will deregister from High Point, causing the 2-COMM talkgroup to stop being carried at that site (assuming no other radios are affiliated with that talkgroup at that site), and #2 the radio will register on Walpack and will cause the 2-COMM talkgroup to follow it to that site.

The same holds true for talkgroups that are primarily on the NJICS system now. Even if there is a matching counterpart on the 800 system (DRJTBC talkgroups, for example), they will only be heard if #1 a radio is affiliated with one of the 800 MHz simulcast cells, or #2 they are being forced to be carried on the 800 MHz even in the absence of any radios actually registered on 800 MHz and affiliated with one of those talkgroups.

Oh and finally, talkgroups can actually be restricted by site. Newark Fire talkgroups, for example, are only permitted on certain sites. A radio that tries to affiliate with one of those talkgroups on High Point in Sussex County is going to be denied affiliation. This is also to preserve channel resources. Other talkgroups are permitted at any site throughout the state.

Basically, there is quite a bit of flexibility in how these systems operate, and therefore the answer is wholly dependent on how the systems and individual talkgroups are setup.

Thanks for this, I appreciate the time you took to reply.
 
Top