• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

New Jersey Interoperability Communication System (NJ ICS)

Signal-Zero

Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
3,038
Location
Fortified Bunker
If you are stationary and locked on the West Orange Simulcast, then one talkgroup would not necessarily be clearer than the other, as they are both using the same system, same site, same channel grants (frequency assignments), same bandwidth (TDMA), etc. What is “most likely” happening is, based upon your location, you are receiving multiple “sites” within the greater simulcast “site” at the same time or close to the same time. Your scanner is probably correcting the difference in time it receives the multiple “sites” but cannot handle it like a typical subscriber. So sometimes it’s good, other times it’s bad, hence the LSM distortion. Could be as little as atmospheric conditions to leaves on trees blocking one more than the other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

W2IRT

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 24, 2003
Messages
204
Location
West Caldwell, NJ
OK, I guess I just wasn't sure if there was anything added or changed on their end, and I'll probably just chalk it up to atmospherics. All I know is that Newark Fire, Verona's public safety agencies, Montclair's agencies, North Caldwell/Essex Fells PD, and ALS Medics (all Phase-2) used to be virtually unlistenable at my location. Now it's only North Caldwell that gets "echo-y" and occasionally certain units from Newark Fire and MONOC ALS medics. The rest sound much better now. West Essex FAS has sounded great since they got on the system, and Fairfield (Phase-1) has always sounded good, both on the 996p2 and the original 996xt.

Like I said, I do have a very rudimentary understanding of what's involved, I just wondered if maybe the antennas were realigned at one of the sites, or something else was done that allowed for a cleaner capture that I'd experienced since getting the 996p2 in May 2018.
 

ht396jm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
75
Location
NJ
Hoping to get another bit of help....... Are the StateCom talkgroups (or any talkgroups other than NJSP for that matter) primary on the 800 system as opposed to NJICS? I'm listening to NJICS on an SDS200 and I have the 800 system on a HomePatrol 1 and I'm trying to limit any excess on the scanners. Thanks!
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
7,118
Location
BEE00
Hoping to get another bit of help....... Are the StateCom talkgroups (or any talkgroups other than NJSP for that matter) primary on the 800 system as opposed to NJICS? I'm listening to NJICS on an SDS200 and I have the 800 system on a HomePatrol 1 and I'm trying to limit any excess on the scanners. Thanks!
Rule of thumb: Most talkgroups that were originally part of the 800 system are still going to be primary to that system. There are a few exceptions where an entire agency jumped ship, like DOT and the DRJTBC who are now primary on NJICS.

Even if a talkgroup is primary on the NJICS, that doesn't mean it's going to necessarily be carried at every site, so it's more or less a crapshoot as to whether you're going to hear activity on particular talkgroups at a particular site, regardless of whether you're scanning them all. Being that the 800 system consists mainly of three large simulcasts, your chances are much better of hearing a talkgroup in a very wide area if it's active on both systems.

Incidentally, any talkgroup higher than 4095 (or 65520 in Type II format) is going to be exclusive to the NJICS system.
 

ht396jm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
75
Location
NJ
Rule of thumb: Most talkgroups that were originally part of the 800 system are still going to be primary to that system. There are a few exceptions where an entire agency jumped ship, like DOT and the DRJTBC who are now primary on NJICS.

Even if a talkgroup is primary on the NJICS, that doesn't mean it's going to necessarily be carried at every site, so it's more or less a crapshoot as to whether you're going to hear activity on particular talkgroups at a particular site, regardless of whether you're scanning them all. Being that the 800 system consists mainly of three large simulcasts, your chances are much better of hearing a talkgroup in a very wide area if it's active on both systems.

Incidentally, any talkgroup higher than 4095 (or 65520 in Type II format) is going to be exclusive to the NJICS system.
Thank you for the fast response! exactly what I was looking for
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
7,118
Location
BEE00
Thank you for the fast response! exactly what I was looking for
Although it's kind of a lame answer, the truth is that it really depends on what site(s) of the NJICS you're scanning and what your expectations are of hearing. I believe that most of the major talkgroups like the StateComs are going to be carried on most (if not all) of the NJICS sites by design, but since none of us are privy to the exact details of which talkgroups might be setup to always broadcast regardless of radio affiliation status at any given site, it's tough to say with any certainty.

My suggestion, since you do have both of the scanners going on each system, is to start logging and/or taking notes as to which talkgroups you're hearing consistently on either system. I realize that there's not a whole lot of activity on the StateCom talkgroups, making it a bit tougher to determine exact usage by site/system, but it never hurts to have notes to refer to.

If a talkgroup is still active on the 800 system, then listening to it on that system would be the safest bet to ensure you don't miss anything, as it could come and go on the NJICS system. Talkgroups are much more likely to come and go on the NJICS due to the nature of the system vs the wide area simulcasts of the 800 system. Some are lucky that their local NJSP comms are carried nearly full time on the NJICS sites they monitor, but so far that seems to be the exception and not the rule.

Frankly, I wish they would convert the 800 system to P25. The constant crackling in the analog audio drives me nuts on that system. I understand that digital is not everyone's cup of tea and it takes getting used to, but once you do get used to the lack of RF noise in the carrier, it's tough to go back to listening to subpar analog signals.
 

ht396jm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
75
Location
NJ
Although it's kind of a lame answer, the truth is that it really depends on what site(s) of the NJICS you're scanning and what your expectations are of hearing. I believe that most of the major talkgroups like the StateComs are going to be carried on most (if not all) of the NJICS sites by design, but since none of us are privy to the exact details of which talkgroups might be setup to always broadcast regardless of radio affiliation status at any given site, it's tough to say with any certainty.

My suggestion, since you do have both of the scanners going on each system, is to start logging and/or taking notes as to which talkgroups you're hearing consistently on either system. I realize that there's not a whole lot of activity on the StateCom talkgroups, making it a bit tougher to determine exact usage by site/system, but it never hurts to have notes to refer to.

If a talkgroup is still active on the 800 system, then listening to it on that system would be the safest bet to ensure you don't miss anything, as it could come and go on the NJICS system. Talkgroups are much more likely to come and go on the NJICS due to the nature of the system vs the wide area simulcasts of the 800 system. Some are lucky that their local NJSP comms are carried nearly full time on the NJICS sites they monitor, but so far that seems to be the exception and not the rule.

Frankly, I wish they would convert the 800 system to P25. The constant crackling in the analog audio drives me nuts on that system. I understand that digital is not everyone's cup of tea and it takes getting used to, but once you do get used to the lack of RF noise in the carrier, it's tough to go back to listening to subpar analog signals.
I've been doing some logging on paper for the last few weeks, I'm getting the West Orange Simulcast clear as day but I'm having a really tough time maintaining a signal from both the Alpine and Ramapo sites so my notes aren't as great as I'd like them to be.

Do you think converting the 800 to P25 would cause unwanted redundancy between the 800 and 700 systems considering there are already talkgroups assigned to simulcast the 800 to the 700? Ya know, I always wondered what stopping the state police and other state agencies from migrating to the PSIC full-time considering the talkgroups were already allocated.

Great info.
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
7,118
Location
BEE00
Redundancy isn't necessarily a bad thing when it comes to radio systems, so let's call it unnecessary duplication. Which already exists to some degree. The NJICS ASTRO 25 core is linked with the NJSP SmartZone system by way of SmartX site converters. Essentially, they are thin rack mount devices that take the analog/digital audio from the older SmartZone system and convert it into digitized IP packets, which then go out as P25 audio over the NJICS system. The reverse is also happening, where P25 audio from the NJICS is getting converted from IP packets back into analog or digital voice over the NJSP system. It all happens seamlessly and transparently. Although not entirely technically correct to say that they are one big system already, for practical purposes they are. Or more specifically, the ASTRO 25 core has effectively absorbed the old SmartZone OmniLink system.

The state has already replaced the 800 system repeaters. They are no longer the older Quantars, but are newer GTR 8000's (same repeaters used on the NJICS). While the Quantars were capable of P25 FDMA operation, they were not capable of TDMA or linear simulcast like the GTR's are, nor do they use IP connections to the zone controller.

I don't mean to suggest that it would be easy by any means to convert the NJSP system to P25, as there are obviously a ton of logistical issues involved in changing over an entire system while it's still active and quite busy. However from a technical standpoint, it's actually not that difficult since the ASTRO 25 core is already up and running for the NJICS system. It would be a matter of migrating sites and repeaters over from the SmartZone system to the ASTRO 25 system. One way that it could be done is by migrating a couple of frequencies at a time, gradually moving users over to the P25 side of things. So the three simulcasts have at least 12 channels each, you migrate 3 of them to P25 (control + 2 voice) as well as migrating a relatively small number of users over to P25 also, then continue to go 2 repeaters at a time until everything and everyone is moved over to P25. At that point it's legitimately a single system, as the old 800 MHz frequencies would simply become another site # on the NJICS system.

Easy for me to say LOL! Anyway, that's all just hypothetical at this point, but eventually they'll have to do something with the old SmartZone system since it's EOL at this point.
 

K2AJB

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
199
Is anyone having any luck receiving the NJICS Ramapo site?
My scanner stopped decoding a control channel several hours ago, which is odd given that that site normally comes in very strong over here.

Edit: the site just came back on.
 
Last edited:

GM

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
925
Some of the Control Channels changed recently with a few of the sites and use the Alternates as Primary and/or voice channels have been changed around to Alternates. I'm working on verifying them in my travels.
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
7,118
Location
BEE00
Some of the Control Channels changed recently with a few of the sites and use the Alternates as Primary and/or voice channels have been changed around to Alternates. I'm working on verifying them in my travels.
I just checked nearly every site in the northern part of the state, and everything is status quo except for the Meadowlands site. That control channel is currently reporting as 770.70625, which is the same as High Point. I suspect that they may've changed that site to mirror High Point, but I'm unable to get a strong enough lock on it to confirm.

Ramapo is as it always was, all four channels and control channel assignments remain the same as the database.

@K2AJB are you sure that you have all of the alternate control channels programmed for each site?
 

K2AJB

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
199
I just checked nearly every site in the northern part of the state, and everything is status quo except for the Meadowlands site. That control channel is currently reporting as 770.70625, which is the same as High Point. I suspect that they may've changed that site to mirror High Point, but I'm unable to get a strong enough lock on it to confirm.

Ramapo is as it always was, all four channels and control channel assignments remain the same as the database.

@K2AJB are you sure that you have all of the alternate control channels programmed for each site?
I have the main and the two alternate control channels programmed in for the Ramapo site.
After I realized my Whistler wasn't decoding a CC, I popped all four frequencies from the Ramapo site one by one into my FT-60R because I suspected that there might be a CC change.

The result was...absolutely nothing. Again, the signal is normally so strong over here that even an FT-60R (not very sensitive on the 700 band) with a small dualband duck will unsquelch.

Then I posted it on here and within minutes the CC started transmitting again...go figure...
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
7,118
Location
BEE00
I have the main and the two alternate control channels programmed in for the Ramapo site.
After I realized my Whistler wasn't decoding a CC, I popped all four frequencies from the Ramapo site one by one into my FT-60R because I suspected that there might be a CC change.

The result was...absolutely nothing. Again, the signal is normally so strong over here that even an FT-60R (not very sensitive on the 700 band) with a small dualband duck will unsquelch.

Then I posted it on here and within minutes the CC started transmitting again...go figure...
Yeah, that's odd for sure. I suppose the site could've gone off the air for a short time, but stuff like that is super rare with these systems. Of course it could've been taken offline on purpose.

I double checked this afternoon, got a good lock on the control channel and made sure nothing with the site configuration has changed. It was still announcing the same two alternate control channels.
 

nosoup4u

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Messages
1,884
Location
High Bridge, NJ
TGID 6093 is showing up on Site 29 (Rutgers) and it appears that Rutgers Security units are using it. It doesn't look encrypted either. I haven't hear any of it myself but I am seeing it in Unitrunker.
 

joedisp

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
34
Location
Union, New Jersey
TGID 6093 is the new internal security operation at University Hospital in Newark. Allied Universal is now providing service to the hospital. Rutgers Police still provide LE.
 

ht396jm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
75
Location
NJ
4819 - Just heard a tone out of an EMS duty crew with Union County radio affiliations (202xxx) on West Orange Simulcast. The dispatcher did say this jurisdiction but I wasn't able to catch it.

11:37 - New Providence EMS. FDMA
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
7,118
Location
BEE00
Can someone in the area please check out the Meadowlands site? The channel configuration appears to have changed.

The current control channel is 770.70625, but I'm unable to get a strong enough signal to see what the alternate control and traffic channels are. I suspect that the site is now using the same lineup as High Point, but need someone in the area to confirm.
 

ht396jm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
75
Location
NJ
4819 - Just heard a tone out of an EMS duty crew with Union County radio affiliations (202xxx) on West Orange Simulcast. The dispatcher did say this jurisdiction but I wasn't able to catch it.

11:37 - New Providence EMS. FDMA
TDMA** - Submission sent.
 

W2SJW

Senior Member
Moderator
Joined
Nov 22, 2001
Messages
3,152
Location
Northwest NJ
I need others to monitor this new TG & confirm if it's just NP, or other MVECC-releated operations. The already listed TG for FD & EMS appears to be too far up in number from the PD channel (if you go by what other towns are doing/have had assigned).
 
Top