New Radios being used by NYPD

[62Truck]

Probably because it is still used in analog.

Then it should have both codes on the license.

 

[ff026]

Just something interesting, on the topic of licenses, I took the time to sift through an FCC data dump of the NYPD licenses. Its interesting that none of them directly specify a digital voice emission (any sort of F1E emission) directly.

Almost all the NYPD licenses define analog 25khz Voice (F3E) and Data (F1D), and 12.5khz Voice and Data. None of them specify the P25 emission code, or a general F1E emission type, which would specify digital voice.

A simple administrative update to change emissions type.

 

[gatekeep]

A simple administrative update to change emissions type.

Yes this is true, however, it doesn't make up for the fact that, NYPD's current digital operations aren't strictly legal.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Yes this is true, however, it doesn't make up for the fact that, NYPD's current digital operations aren't strictly legal.

They could have an STA or pending application..

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[GTR8000]

Yes this is true, however, it doesn't make up for the fact that, NYPD's current digital operations aren't strictly legal.

Likewise, the lack of digital emission designators also doesn't provide any reliable clue for those looking at the licenses trying to figure out if they will or won't migrate to P25 in the near future. I know that many in this thread wish they could talk the inevitable away, grasping at straws by mentioning stuff that ultimately has no bearing on the already determined outcome.

They could have an STA or pending application..

They have neither as pertains to this discussion.

 

[gatekeep]

Likewise, the lack of digital emission designators also doesn't provide any reliable clue for those looking at the licenses trying to figure out if they will or won't migrate to P25 in the near future. I know that many in this thread wish they could talk the inevitable away, grasping at straws by mentioning stuff that ultimately has no bearing on the already determined outcome.

I have no doubts about the move to digital or encryption, that will happen regardless. I'm in no way attempting to talk the inevitable away here. My initial look into the licenses was out of simple curiosity, if anything I'm simply looking to see what the timeframe of execution might be.

I had no intention of adding anything to this conversation or 'stiring the pot', other then pointing out the fact that NYPD currently lacks the appropriate emissions, with or without STAs or pending applications on their licenses to properly (legally) move forward with the UF-49.

 

[902]

WIF560 (CW4) does not include a 20K0F1E (25khz Digital Voice), 11K3F1E (12.5khz Digital Voice) or the 8K10F1E (P25 Phase 1 C4FM Voice).

Even Wide Pulse Astro (Motorola proprietary, with Tait having the option in their radios) is 10K0. There is no 20K0 digital voice emission. It's not really a valid emission, although a lot of system managers used it before the actual emission designators were pushed out by various concerns (including RR).

 

[Priority-One]

I started hearing long, Unmuted MDC in the 1/5/7. I live around the corner from the 7th precinct. I hear them only on 1 shift, usually mornings. I haven’t been able to see any cops with the new radios, but I’m sure they are rolling out the new ones


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[Danny37]

I started hearing long, Unmuted MDC in the 1/5/7. I live around the corner from the 7th precinct. I hear them only on 1 shift, usually mornings. I haven’t been able to see any cops with the new radios, but I’m sure they are rolling out the new ones


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I think it's been like that for years now. I remember always being able to decode ID's on that zone. Anyone one is the 67-71 from time to time.

 

[ff026]

I started hearing long, Unmuted MDC in the 1/5/7. I live around the corner from the 7th precinct. I hear them only on 1 shift, usually mornings. I haven’t been able to see any cops with the new radios, but I’m sure they are rolling out the new ones


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MDC is muted at the voting comparator. Has nothing to do with the old/new radios. Every now and again an unmuted ID gets thru. If I remember correctly, from a very old MDC spec sheet put out by Motorola there is a like 1 in 1000 chance that ID’s don’t get muted. I remember reading it but it’s over 20 years ago. I think I’m the specs it was called DOS mute failure and like I wrote the rate was something like 1/1000.

On a side note on the simplex channels DOS (data operated Squelch) is enable on all radios.

 

[902]

MDC is muted at the voting comparator.

Wow, I've been out of this too long. I don't recall the DigiTAC or AstroTAC comparators ever doing MDC muting. The SpectraTAC certainly didn't. What are they using as their comparators, do you know? Last I read, they were a large bank of daisy-chained SpectraTACs, but that was years ago.

 

[radioman2001]

Or rat race comparators, saw a lot of them on the Manhattan sites.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

MDC is muted at the voting comparator. Has nothing to do with the old/new radios. Every now and again an unmuted ID gets thru. If I remember correctly, from a very old MDC spec sheet put out by Motorola there is a like 1 in 1000 chance that ID’s don’t get muted. I remember reading it but it’s over 20 years ago. I think I’m the specs it was called DOS mute failure and like I wrote the rate was something like 1/1000.

On a side note on the simplex channels DOS (data operated Squelch) is enable on all radios.

The MDC has to pass through the comparator to the console so that it can be displayed. I thought DOS muting was done in the subscriber radio. That implies it is present on repeater audio as well, which must be the case because scannerists are decoding MDC and if an agency wants MDC to appear at an RF control station or utilize any of the MDC features radio to radio, it cannot be muted in the comparator. This, unless NYC is doing something non standard.

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[Priority-One]

I’ve only noticed it during day time shifts. All night the rest of the radios are muted. I contributed this to
New radios being rolled out in the 1/5/7 as I saw a SGT yesterday on Essex st with a new vertex radio. But I’m no expert. It was just a guess why the radios were not muted


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[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Even Wide Pulse Astro (Motorola proprietary, with Tait having the option in their radios) is 10K0. There is no 20K0 digital voice emission. It's not really a valid emission, although a lot of system managers used it before the actual emission designators were pushed out by various concerns (including RR).

20K0F3E shows up on FCC certifications from time to time. As well, 20K0F1E , which is the old Securenet encryption. These are all valid emissions depending on the frequency band subject to the narrowbanding mandate which eliminated their use in VHF hi 150-162 and UHF 450-470.

The APCO frequency coordinator site lists a slew of these emission types.

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[902]

The MDC has to pass through the comparator to the console so that it can be displayed. I thought DOS muting was done in the subscriber radio. That implies it is present on repeater audio as well, which must be the case because scannerists are decoding MDC and if an agency wants MDC to appear at an RF control station or utilize any of the MDC features radio to radio, it cannot be muted in the comparator. This, unless NYC is doing something non standard.

NYC NEVER had "standard" anything. When everyone else was sold on console priority, NYPD wanted SUBSCRIBER priority so they could interrupt the dispatcher. The streets are always very fluid and their consoles have always been full duplex so that the units could stop the dispatcher and even have a brief dialogue with them to immediately correct something.

I can see the comparator routing audio down two separate paths, one to the console without the filtering so the console could display the unit ID, but then another to the repeater where there is a filter. I think back to North Bergen, NJ's 800 system, where Henry Bros., a former MSS in the region, muted out MODAT unit ID from the repeater with a mute for the duration of the MODAT tones. But that wasn't a stock function of the comparator more than a "blue-wire" SP.

 

[902]

The APCO frequency coordinator site lists a slew of these emission types.

I very much prefer the emission designator wiki page here.

 

[902]

Or rat race comparators, saw a lot of them on the Manhattan sites.

Which ones were these? The DC ones?

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I very much prefer the emission designator wiki page here.

In order of officialdom, I would put RR wiki a step or two below the FCC and APCO. Though the RR wiki might have more details. There are clearly a lot of "funky" emission designators out there thanks to BaoFengshuii and the other LPC radios.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Which ones were these? The DC ones?

I have heard of "rat race" and "relay race" comparators that don't actually vote anything just latch to the most recent receiver, but I don't think I have actually seen one or any documentation. The early Motorola "Tac" voter did actually select a receiver with stronger'ish signal strength based on limiter reading and tone sequence from the receiver.