New St.louis County PD frequencies?

[fullpwr5675]

hello all,does anybody have any info on stlco police going to new freqs or possibly digital,a few times this week I heard dispatch instruct officers to switch to future "A" or "8" and lost them,I know it wasn't any of the riot channels as i have those in my database and always track the event or conversation fairly easily through those but this was the first time I heard "switch to future "A"or"8"

 

[polo807]

Re Saint Louis County

A dispatcher was asking someone to check channels this morning between 3:30a.m and 4:00 a.m going up in 2s channel 10 ,12 and 14. I did see one of the riot channels being tested but that was after I put my glasses on and pause the scan I didn't see the prior channels being tested. Now ARC XT-Pro they have these frequencies listed under Saint Louis County simulcast with no talk groups yet.
Lat is 38.67528 and long is -90.40028 which puts it in Olivette,Mo 63132. I think that is one of the antenna's the county is going to use correct me if I am wrong.
854.0625
854.1875
854.2625
854.4875
854.5375
854.6125
854.6875
854.7375
856.1125
856.6375
Hope this help out I am going to program these in today.
Keep us informed.

 

[dpm3]

Now ARC XT-Pro they have these frequencies listed under Saint Louis County simulcast with no talk groups yet.
Lat is 38.67528 and long is -90.40028 which puts it in Olivette,Mo 63132. I think that is one of the antenna's the county is going to use correct me if I am wrong.
854.0625
854.1875
854.2625
854.4875
854.5375
854.6125
854.6875
854.7375
856.1125
856.6375
Hope this help out I am going to program these in today.
Keep us informed.

These are the same frequencies that the RR Database has listed as part of the City of StL PD digital system - implying that it is for a simulcast of the City's system. When one notes that the same "source" (I use that term advisedly) is adamant that the City of StL, St. Charles County, Independence (across the state in Jackson County) and the Edward Jones Dome are all set up to be part of some grand St. Louis Police digital system, one begins to wonder ... It is like a clock that chimes 13 times - is it EVER correct? Is there some verifiable basis for this assertion or is it the "fantastic imagining" of someone who wishes something like this might happen?

I think someone in the RR administrative team needs to take an objective look at what is being "shared" in the MO database. it makes infinitely more sense to speculate that the County PD may set up its own trunked system (perhaps digital, perhaps not) than to assume that everything is going to be part of one grand statewide system run by the City of StL PD Board.

While we are at it, it seems self evident that the City of St. Louis needs to be treated as a separate county that is separate from the County and clickable from the statewide map. The fact that this issue has yet to be rectified is more evidence that the MO database isn't getting that attention/administration it requires.

 

[fullpwr5675]

hello ,dpm3 was wondering if you know what freqs Webster Groves is using (seeing you live there) or are they just using ECDS under their own PL tone,thanks

 

[polo807]

Re Saint Louis County Police

Check out the FCC Database
File # 0004106775
This file is for the new trunked system.
Set for fully operational 2nd quarter 2013.

 

[dpm3]

Check out the FCC Database
File # 0004106775
This file is for the new trunked system.
Set for fully operational 2nd quarter 2013.

Thanks for doing the research, "Polo". This seems to confirm my suspicions, which brings into issue yet again why this stuff has to be "hidden" on the separate City of St. Louis page as part of the City's digital trunked system. Some RESPONSIBLE member of the RR staff with the requisite authority needs to step in and get this mess straightened out - including providing a separate clickable link for the data that is LEGITIMATELY associated with the City Of St. Louis' digital (and other) system(s)/frequencies.

Continuing the charade that the City Of St. Louis, St. Louis and St Charles Counties and Independence, MO are being set up on a single digital trunked system managed by the City of St. Louis is an absurd fantasy, likely pathological in origin. The database here needs to be clarified/corrected!

To reiterate, "Polo", your efforts here in setting the record straight are much appreciated.

 

[dpm3]

hello ,dpm3 was wondering if you know what freqs Webster Groves is using (seeing you live there) or are they just using ECDS under their own PL tone,thanks

Your reply prompted me to (once again) take a look at just what is "hearable" on ECPD-S frequency of 159.9. I've done a quick half day review of what is being logged on my OptoCom (running Probe, Version 7). What the Probe log SEEMS to show is a number of logged "hits" with the DPL of 0412 - as per the database info, while there are a number of squelch breaks not strong enough to be "logged" with no CT or DPL tone shown.

I do note on my PSR-500 that using the DPL reduces the number of transmissions heard noticeably. Whether this is due to a "weakness" in the GRE DPL decode function or some inconsistency or weakness in the ECPD-S DPL transmissions isn't clear to me, but I do note that this does not seem to be a problem on the EC Fire Dispatch transmissions on 151.055.

Any observations on this "phenomenon" by those more knowledgeable or capable than I would be most welcome. For my part, I typically scan/monitor 159.900 in FM mode with no CTCSS or DPL code enabled. While the random squelch breaks with no audio can be annoying, it does seem to provide a more satisfactory listening experience. Anyone else have something to share on this issue?

 

[Starcom21]

This has already been discussed and thoroughly explained before. These different sites are part of the same system, motorola trs system id of 1CE.

No one really knows for sure if roaming capabilities are present, but sure that is what the system is set up for.

We are all aware and understand that st louis city and county are 2 completely separate entities.

Last I know, the state map clicking issue is not fixable with the current version of the map software, as mentioned before.

Please stop blaming things on others, when it is clearly something you don't understand completely.

Review the michigan and illinois state p25 systems. Now while no one knows for sure how it is going to end up looking in missouri yet, what is listed in the database is currently correct and all st louis and st charles sites have been verified using pro 96 com.

Since the future us going to be a mix of 700/800 and vhf, we will have to see how it end up looking when it starts to come online, if it ever does.

 

[dpm3]

This has already been discussed and thoroughly explained before. These different sites are part of the same system, motorola trs system id of 1CE.

No one really knows for sure if roaming capabilities are present, but sure that is what the system is set up for.

Some independent, verifiable references to those "facts" would be helpful, Terry. I think most of us are well aware that this is your conclusion, but whatever theoretical connection you may feel you discern in the information you've unearthed, perpetuating the idea that all of these communities' systems are somehow inextricably linked to the City Of St. Louis Police Department is naive at best and downright confusing (if not misleading) in any event.

What useful purpose is served by "hiding" the StL County, St. Charles County and the Independence systems in the obscurely hidden City of St. Louis (for whatever reason) "non-clickable" page? Whether or not your theoretical "Single Grand And Unified Statewide System" ever comes to fruition, having the information "hidden" in a location that many users would not instinctively check seems counterproductive. But what does a simple user like I know ... right?

 

[Starcom21]

Some independent, verifiable references to those "facts" would be helpful, Terry. I think most of us are well aware that this is your conclusion, but whatever theoretical connection you may feel you discern in the information you've unearthed, perpetuating the idea that all of these communities' systems are somehow inextricably linked to the City Of St. Louis Police Department is naive at best and downright confusing (if not misleading) in any event.

Again, you are blaming ME for something just because I entered the data. I've been told my other people in the business and hobby this is how it should be entered. After that, I went and verified the information myself, which I just did again 2 days ago.

And obviously YOU are confused about this.... listen to it, monitor it and just be happy we have the know-how to do so.

What useful purpose is served by "hiding" the StL County, St. Charles County and the Independence systems in the obscurely hidden City of St. Louis (for whatever reason) "non-clickable" page? Whether or not your theoretical "Single Grand And Unified Statewide System" ever comes to fruition, having the information "hidden" in a location that many users would not instinctively check seems counterproductive. But what does a simple user like I know ... right?

1) It is not "hidden" on the City of St Louis page. The link to the TRS is included on every other county page and agency TRS box included with each agency that is using it on those pages. It is very easy to find.

St Charles County

Lambert Airport

Jackson County/Independence
(actually still has their OWN P25 system listing to prevent confusion with naming the TRS as a statewide or St Louis System. The info is just on the St Louis system as a reference because it HAS THE SAME SYSTEM ID)

2) It's plain and simple. I've asked for the map to be fixed more than once, and it apparently is not going to happen. I have no control over this.

3) The name of the system is St. Louis Metropolitan Public Safety (P25) and NO WHERE on the page does it even IMPLY that it is currently or even going to be part of any statewide system. And St Louis Metropolitan means the "St Louis Metro Area" as in what it is referred to by the news media, general population and people they may be simply talking about the area.

I mean, simply here, you have some kind of grudge against me, or RadioReference, or Motorola, or mankind or something. Just relax and take in the info and as said before, enjoy is as for what it is.

 

[Starcom21]

These are the same frequencies that the RR Database has listed as part of the City of StL PD digital system - implying that it is for a simulcast of the City's system.

These are the same frequencies listed for ST LOUIS COUNTY under the ST LOUIS METROPOLITAN AREA system, NOT the CITY system.

IN NO WAY IS THIS IMPLYING THAT IT IS GOING TO BE A SIMULCAST OF THE CITY SYSTEM. The COUNTY site itself is simulcast, having multiple TOWERS broadcasting the same information.

THese are the 3 simulcast towers:
1 - Fixed OFF FINE ROAD KIMMSWICK, MO ST. LOUIS County 38-24-10.0 N, 090-19-53.0 W
2 - Fixed 3298 US ROUTE 67 FLORISSANT, MO ST. LOUIS County 38-48-38.4 N, 090-17-38.5 W
3 - Fixed 9989 OLIVE STREET CREVE COEUR, MO ST. LOUIS County 38-40-31.0 N, 090-24-01.0 W

When one notes that the same "source" (I use that term advisedly) is adamant that the City of StL, St. Charles County, Independence (across the state in Jackson County)

Source is a "real" source, I can assure you of that.

and the Edward Jones Dome are all set up to be part of some grand St. Louis Police digital system, one begins to wonder ... It is like a clock that chimes 13 times - is it EVER correct? Is there some verifiable basis for this assertion or is it the "fantastic imagining" of someone who wishes something like this might happen?

Yeah, it is really hard to imagine that the Edwards Jones Dome and the City of St Louis police could possible ever be part of the same system.

See the attachments here for the Board of Police Commissioners - SLMPD
ULS Application - Public Safety/Spec Emerg, 806-821/851-866 MHz, Trunked - 0003879590 - BOARD OF POLICE COMMISSIONERS OF THE METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT OF THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS - Administration

part of the PDF File

More information,
From the police Chief:

Update Posted on 2007-12-18 22:22:04
Attention all Police Department Personnel:

We are happy to announce that the current Radio System will be replaced with a brand new Digital Project 25 compliant (the latest standards for public safety) Radio System. Our new Radio System will be the first of many systems deployed in our region that will work together providing interoperable Communications between Public Safety and First Responders throughout the entire St. Louis region.

 

[Starcom21]

Try these talkgroups, and of course listen for any new ones.

10303 and 10301 were thought to be Parks, but after the last few days 10301 has had very different activity.

10301 283d D SL Parks 301 Park Ops or Drug Units Law Tac
10303 283f D SL Parks 303 Operations (Art Hill) Law Tac
10304 2840 D SL Patch 4 Patch (MHP during All-Star Game) Interop
10308 2844 D SL 10308 Testing (also on TG10201) EMS Dispatch


10301 has been very active the last few days, looking for, watching and running down people as possibly some sort of drug operations.

Also, 10026 is new to the city system, been very busy serving warrants, possibly as part of the Sheriff'? (not sure how the whole Sheriff thing works in the city)

Terry

 

[wb0wao]

This is my understanding of the system(s).....

I think the confusion started with version 1.0 of the proposed MO statewide system that was going to be 700/800 MHz and that both STL and Independence systems were designed to hook into this proposed new system so that theoretically a STL PD unit traveling on I-70 to KC would be in constant radio contact with their dispatchers/other units.

However....... reality set in at Jeff City - i.e. there wasn't enough money, and the system was scaled waaaaay back so now it will be a MSHP optimized VHF system that local agencies will be able to "buy into" if they so desire. Basically, MO originally planned for a StarCom21 system of their own, but the money is not there for it. So while the Independence and STL systems are compatable, they are, as I understand it, two totally seperate systems that could potentially be linked together at some future date. Once the new MO system is in place, and the STL PD units have a VHF compatable radio, then it would be possible for them to be in constant contact. But if all they have are the 800 MHz radios, they will be out of luck.

Dennis

 

[dpm3]

This is my understanding of the system(s).....


However....... reality set in at Jeff City - i.e. there wasn't enough money, and the system was scaled waaaaay back so now it will be a MSHP optimized VHF system that local agencies will be able to "buy into" if they so desire. Basically, MO originally planned for a StarCom21 system of their own, but the money is not there for it.

Dennis

Whew! Looks like we dodged a bullet there! If we'd have proceeded with a StarCom-type system, I can only assume that the next step would have been to put two of our next three governors in prison!

 

[dpm3]

I mean, simply here, you have some kind of grudge against me, or RadioReference, or Motorola, or mankind or something. Just relax and take in the info and as said before, enjoy is as for what it is.

Terry, Terry, Terry ... grab the reins here, pal! I don't even KNOW you. I made no inquiry to ascertain who may have uploaded the information. It isn't personal.

As far as Radio Reference goes, I am, by and large, quite delighted with the resources it provides and the opportunity forums (such as this one) afford enthusiasts to discuss issues of mutual interest. I've no beef with Motorola whatsoever. I use some of their radio equipment and (before I got my first "Cracberry") enjoyed using their GSM cell phone.

As regards mankind in general, maybe I am a bit misanthropic and cynical, but that's not really relevant here. If anything, that remark suggests that you, yourself, have taken this "controversy" to a personal level.

You are correct, we ought to review, enjoy and (where possible) utilize the info that RR provides. My motivation is solely to make it more consistent with actual day to day current usage and more accessible - and usable - to the routine or casual hobbyist.

 

[scanman1958]

159.900 dpl

Your reply prompted me to (once again) take a look at just what is "hearable" on ECPD-S frequency of 159.9. I've done a quick half day review of what is being logged on my OptoCom (running Probe, Version 7). What the Probe log SEEMS to show is a number of logged "hits" with the DPL of 0412 - as per the database info, while there are a number of squelch breaks not strong enough to be "logged" with no CT or DPL tone shown.

I do note on my PSR-500 that using the DPL reduces the number of transmissions heard noticeably. Whether this is due to a "weakness" in the GRE DPL decode function or some inconsistency or weakness in the ECPD-S DPL transmissions isn't clear to me, but I do note that this does not seem to be a problem on the EC Fire Dispatch transmissions on 151.055.



I also, at times have problems receiving all signals coming from 159.900 with the DPL on. But that problem only occurs with my Alinco DJ-596 handheld. With the 412 DPL on I only receive mobile units. I do not receive the dispatcher, however, the signal bar shows the strongest signal possible. I do not have this problem with any of my DPL programmable scanners. They receive all traffic just fine. I use no software.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[kruser]

It sounds like the dispatch transmission may be overloading your Alinco. Too much signal. Are you close to the tower?
I'm not familiar with Alinco's but if it has an attenuator you may try turning that on while dispatch is talking and see if it receives it then.
I get dispatch and mobiles up here in Chesterfield with DPL on with a variety of receivers. Mobiles are weak here however.
I'm also using Probe and am seeing a PL tone of 136.5 in addition to the 0412 DPL code. The DPL code is by far the most common and I've never been quick enough to look at the probe screen while a 136.5 PL tone was being received.

edit: I think the 136.5 PL tone is just a ghost tone that the Optoscan board is passing on to Probe.
I've caught it a few times now and each time it appeared it was only logged during the first 1/4 to 1/2 second of the dispatch transmission and then probe would switch to displaying the 0412 DPL code.