New Uniden HomePatrol, New Diamond SRH-789, but still not happy w/reception

[PadrePaul]

Just got the new Uniden Home Patrol 1 and had a very helpful manager at Radio Shack get me going on it. Even brought in my laptop to set up software, and ordered an antenna from Universal, the Diamond SRH-789. I had high hopes that I'd be hearing what's going on around the west and north metro, and maybe even hear some calls out of Minneapolis.

It certainly is easy to use, but unfortunately what I'm finding are a lot of choppy signals. I used to love the various "mains" from Hennepin County, but even the west main isn't as clear as I'd hoped; it seems the east main is even weaker. Some seem to come in pretty decently, and the fire channels are actually pretty clear, but other times channels are quite choppy - even Wright County, where I live, is at times choppy. Needless to say I'm feeling like Ralphie finally getting his Orphan Annie decoder wring only to find out it was worthless. My old scanner from the 90s worked just great; so nice and clear. Even when it stops on a channel, it's often just one bar. Not a good sign. Really surprised it didn't pick up anything from Minneapolis, even staticy.

I'm not ready to return it yet, but may very well cash in my chips next week if I find the listening doesn't improve. I don't mind static, but getting half of a call and not even being able to get the Hennepin County mains clearly is a major let down. I don't want to drop hundreds of dollars on an outdoor set-up, so will look at the options and see what I can do.

If you have any suggestions I'd appreciate it. Perhaps it's my home; I live in an old brick house. Some guy on ebay designed this: UNIDEN HOMEPATROL SCANNER ANTENNA UPGRADE 800MHZ HOME PATROL 3db gain RUBBER | eBay but I can't see it being any better than what I've got.

Needless to say as a pessimist, my hopes aren't very high that I'll be enjoying a new scanner for very long unless there's something I can do to improve reception.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

 

[JASII]

New Uniden HomePatrol, New Diamond SRH-789, But Still Not Happy With Reception

I think getting an antenna cut specifically to 800 mHz is a great idea. If you keep looking around you can find one with more than 3 dB of gain and maybe even less expensive. Some people even get a mobile magnetic mount antenna , but use it inside by placing it on a metal filing cabinet, refrigerator, or other metal object.

You may also want to read through this thread http://forums.radioreference.com/scanner-receiver-antennas/246519-excellent-800mhz-antenna.html

 

[AAFC]

Sounds like typical digital scanning to me...

I know what you mean about how nice the old scanners worked. Unfortunately, the old scanners will not pick up the new digital trunked systems (as I'm sure you know) I'm not familiar with your exact location, but in my location I experience a lot of "digital distortion". It's caused by too many towers re-transmitting the same signal. I live within 3 miles of 3 ARMER towers which are all transmitting the same signal and my scanner gets confused. (for lack of a better description) Some days are better than others but I've yet to experience 100% perfect scanning like the old days. One thing that you can do is buy a YAGI antenna which is "directional" and you can point it to one specific tower to help eliminate signal from other towers. Another thing you can try is to use the worst antenna possible. This may sound strange, but you're trying to eliminate weaker signals from towers that are further away. With a weak antenna, you may get lucky and only pickup the tower closest to your house..... which would help eliminate the garbled transmissions you're probably hearing. Some guys are using a paper clip as an antenna with good results. Nobody can give you an exact answer because everyone's location is unique. What works for one guy, won't work for the other. I just built a homemade YAGI antenna the other day and I'm now getting the best scanning results I've ever experienced...... almost perfect.


As for not hearing some cities, or "systems"....... Not every system is carried on every tower. And if you're too far away from the tower that you want to listen to, then it may be impossible to hear it. A YAGI antenna may help though. Just like I mentioned above, they are directional but they also help to pull in far away signals when pointed directly at the target tower.

Don't return the scanner just yet. You might try a few different things and end up with a scanner that works pretty good. I was in your shoes when I first bought my scanner with terrible reception. But now that I've fine tuned my settings and antenna, I am pretty happy with it.

Just some food for thought....

Edit: Here is a link that talks about digital distortion.
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Simulcast_digital_distortion


.

 

[PadrePaul]

Thanks for the comments. I'll try some different things and might look at the other antenna option, but if I can't get the Hennepin mains in I'm not sure I'll keep it. We'll see, hopefully I can find a solution.

 

[KWs]

I purchased the antenna from the seller you mention on e-bay ... antenna performs BETTER than the radio shack 800 antenna for all frequency ranges and the SMA connection is excellent .. it's worth every penny.

 

[wogggieee]

I'd echo what JASII says, get a antenna specifically designed for 800mhz. The one you got is designed for a very wide range of frequencies. Those kinds of antennas have to cover a lot of territory and thus have to compromise to achieve that and often arent as good as one designed specifically for 800. Try the radio shack 800mhz or the one you posted or try others. I have a couple Antenex antennas that I'm happy with. I've bought 4 or 5 800mhz antennas over the years trying different things. Its often a trial and error thing. The location inside your house can make a difference too. I get better reception on ramsey county in my kitchen than my living room. If you can, try getting an antenna up somewhat high and outside.

 

[PadrePaul]

I purchased the antenna from the seller you mention on e-bay ... antenna performs BETTER than the radio shack 800 antenna for all frequency ranges and the SMA connection is excellent .. it's worth every penny.

We'll see. It's just $30 so I ordered it; if that doesn't work perhaps I can try the other one; if I'm just too far away I'll return it. Thanks for the tips - here's hoping I can at least get Hennepin County being I'm on the border. Maybe Delano is just too far away.

 

[gunmasternd]

We'll see. It's just $30 so I ordered it; if that doesn't work perhaps I can try the other one; if I'm just too far away I'll return it. Thanks for the tips - here's hoping I can at least get Hennepin County being I'm on the border. Maybe Delano is just too far away.

well a cellphone antenna might be doable if you had the right connectors. or https://www.scannermaster.com/Laird_B8065_Antenna_806_866_MHz_5db_Gain_p/20-540972.htm

 

[ofd8001]

Not being in the Minnesota area and knowing geographic specifics, I'm grabbing at straws to a degree here.

Do you get satisfactory reception from the Wright county users on the ARMER system? If so, that tells you that your scanner is working.

I'm unfamiliar with the HP scanner. Does it have some type of signal strength indicator? If you are showing a strong signal from the Hennepin (particularly West) system, you might be getting "garble" associated with simulcasting - there's a lot of posts about this in the Uniden section, so I won't be repetitive.

So you might be in one of two boats. One is that you are too far away to realistically expect reception from modern systems. The other is you are hearing multiple sites really well and your scanner (like many other folks' scanners) are having challenges decoding the collision of multiple sites.

If you are in the too far away boat, an outdoor antenna might be helpful. The brick of your home is soaking up the radio signals.

If you are getting several sites, simply try moving your scanner around. Changing locations might get you in a spot where only one site is being heard. It seems weird, but I've seen moving a scanner just a few feet can make a difference in the multiple site reception predicament.

Even more weird, our system in Louisville Kentucky is a several site system. There are places I hear it clearly and others it is garbled due to multiple site reception. There's been times I've actually disconnected the antenna and heard the system better without it.

Like I said, I'm taking some wild guesses because I don't know the geography of your specific community well.

Nonetheless I thought I give this a shot trying to help a new guy out. Besides whenever guys like me start to provide our professional services (as in me being in the fire service) it's good to have guys like you knowing about it, so you can provide your professional services endeavoring in our safe return.

 

[K5MPH]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

Try putting an antenna out side and or get a pre amp,a tv pre amp will work I use one and it works great it take a very higain antenna to get good signal on these 800mhz digital freq.it's not like the old days,good luck......

 

[JASII]

New Uniden HomePatrol, New Diamond SRH-789, But Still Not Happy With Reception

Paul,

What is your squelch set at?

Jim

 

[PadrePaul]

Paul,

What is your squelch set at?

Jim

Pretty low to pull in even the faint stations.

 

[PadrePaul]

Not being in the Minnesota area and knowing geographic specifics, I'm grabbing at straws to a degree here.

Do you get satisfactory reception from the Wright county users on the ARMER system? If so, that tells you that your scanner is working.

I'm unfamiliar with the HP scanner. Does it have some type of signal strength indicator? If you are showing a strong signal from the Hennepin (particularly West) system, you might be getting "garble" associated with simulcasting - there's a lot of posts about this in the Uniden section, so I won't be repetitive.

So you might be in one of two boats. One is that you are too far away to realistically expect reception from modern systems. The other is you are hearing multiple sites really well and your scanner (like many other folks' scanners) are having challenges decoding the collision of multiple sites.

If you are in the too far away boat, an outdoor antenna might be helpful. The brick of your home is soaking up the radio signals.

If you are getting several sites, simply try moving your scanner around. Changing locations might get you in a spot where only one site is being heard. It seems weird, but I've seen moving a scanner just a few feet can make a difference in the multiple site reception predicament.

Even more weird, our system in Louisville Kentucky is a several site system. There are places I hear it clearly and others it is garbled due to multiple site reception. There's been times I've actually disconnected the antenna and heard the system better without it.

Like I said, I'm taking some wild guesses because I don't know the geography of your specific community well.

Nonetheless I thought I give this a shot trying to help a new guy out. Besides whenever guys like me start to provide our professional services (as in me being in the fire service) it's good to have guys like you knowing about it, so you can provide your professional services endeavoring in our safe return.

I can get Wright just fine, and sometimes Anoka, Hennepin, even Dakota, however sometimes too there is garble - such as I get the dispatcher, but the response comes in and out. Perhaps that's because the car's response is weaker or further away? I know it's not going to be like back in the day, but I'm hopeful with a good antenna and putting it on the windowsill on the upper level of the house I can enjoy scanning the area frequencies on the north and west parts of the Twin Cities. I'll have to experiment with it and see what the other antenna can do.

 

[QwKiE]

Paul I live in a townhouse, no antennas are aloud outside so I have a Radio Shack magnet mount antenna 2000032 on a steel pizza pan up stairs works very well. Actualy I have two HP 1,s and a 2006 Radio Shack all have there own mag mount antenna on the same pan all work very good. I set squelch at two range at 10 I hear way more than I really need From my area and way further away I wish you luck but you need to experment a little to see where you get best reception from at your location and make sure you have the right service types for your area turned on and then accept them.

 

[wogggieee]

Anoka and Dakota counties are likely going to be questionable from wright county without an directional antenna outside. Your best bet on those is to try for Hennepin county and hope theyre roaming on there.

 

[Raven95150]

I can get Wright just fine, and sometimes Anoka, Hennepin, even Dakota, however sometimes too there is garble - such as I get the dispatcher, but the response comes in and out. Perhaps that's because the car's response is weaker or further away? I know it's not going to be like back in the day, but I'm hopeful with a good antenna and putting it on the windowsill on the upper level of the house I can enjoy scanning the area frequencies on the north and west parts of the Twin Cities. I'll have to experiment with it and see what the other antenna can do.

It sounds to me that you may be experiencing more of a programming issue rather than a reception issue. Do you know which site you are listening to? (look at the control channel frequency)

If you are listening to Hennepin East, your reception will be sketchy at best because the closest tower to you is in Golden Valley. Here's a map of Hennepin East tower locations:

WPKH277 (HENNEPIN, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details

Hennepin West is probably the site you want being in Delano, as there is a tower in Maple Plain. This site should carry most of the Hennepin County stuff, at least some stuff from Anoka and Wright Counties, State Patrol (West Metro and St Cloud districts), and several EMS services.

WPKK355 (HENNEPIN, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details

Another site you might have decent luck with is the Carver/Scott County site. This will carry everything in Carver and Scott Counties, and probably some Dakota County too. This site also has towers that are not far from Delano.

WPKG241 (MINNESOTA, STATE OF/CARVER COUNTY) FCC Callsign Details

It sounds to me like your scanner is switching sites while scanning, and that's why you are getting varied reception quality. If the scanner is locked onto one site, your reception should remain pretty much the same because everything you are hearing is coming from the same tower.

 

[JT-112]

Sorry for the bad news, but you're suffering from P25 simulcast distortion.

There's no scanner made today that decodes simulcast audio well. Yes, some people might get lucky in that they like someplace where the issue isn't as much of a problem, but really there's no way to fix it with a scanner currently.

It's really too bad that both Uniden and GRE both know about this problem but give prospective purchasers of their gear no advance warning that they will run into this problem.

Years ago when a simulcast system went live in my area, I too tried all sorts of antenna tricks and the result was the same - bad audio.

The bottom line is that GRE and Uniden need to either a) step up and deliver a scanner that works on simulcast P25, or b) notify people that what they're buying is almost certainly not going to work well (or ever at all, given the worst-case scenario) for them.

They've done neither, and again - both GRE and Uniden know full well about this issue, and they've done nothing for years, which tells me that either a) they can't fix the issue or b) they're unwilling to fix the issue.

You can search YouTube for dozens of examples, here's one for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErDmiCAkWig

 

[Raven95150]

I get pretty decent reception with my 396, also on Anoka County as in that video. It's not perfect, but pretty good about 90% of the time.


I don't think the problem is that the scanner manufacturers can't fix this issue, I think it's a matter of cost. There's a reason digital scanners cost around $500, and a real digital radio costs $2,000 or more. They probably could build a scanner with better digital decoding, but who's going to pay that kind of money for one? Unlike a company like Motorola, Uniden and GRE sell their products mainly to people who listen as a hobby so they have to keep prices affordable. Even at $500, many possible customers are already priced out of the market. If the price on these things doubled, they probably wouldn't even sell enough units to cover the cost of production.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[PadrePaul]

It sounds to me that you may be experiencing more of a programming issue rather than a reception issue. Do you know which site you are listening to? (look at the control channel frequency)

If you are listening to Hennepin East, your reception will be sketchy at best because the closest tower to you is in Golden Valley. Here's a map of Hennepin East tower locations:

WPKH277 (HENNEPIN, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details

Hennepin West is probably the site you want being in Delano, as there is a tower in Maple Plain. This site should carry most of the Hennepin County stuff, at least some stuff from Anoka and Wright Counties, State Patrol (West Metro and St Cloud districts), and several EMS services.

WPKK355 (HENNEPIN, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details

Another site you might have decent luck with is the Carver/Scott County site. This will carry everything in Carver and Scott Counties, and probably some Dakota County too. This site also has towers that are not far from Delano.

WPKG241 (MINNESOTA, STATE OF/CARVER COUNTY) FCC Callsign Details

It sounds to me like your scanner is switching sites while scanning, and that's why you are getting varied reception quality. If the scanner is locked onto one site, your reception should remain pretty much the same because everything you are hearing is coming from the same tower.

Yes, what I'm finding is that sometimes it stays locked on and I hear it; other times it'll come in just fine for part of a call. The Radio Shack manager was very nice and said I could keep it for 30 days and returning it would be no issue. At this time I'll probably keep it, and try the different antennas. Today I was hearing some good channels, Carver was OK, Scott was OK, even Bloomington and Edina no problems. I moved it to the windowsill in my upstairs room. I'll be curious what I get with different antenna set-ups.

 

[JT-112]

I get pretty decent reception with my 396, also on Anoka County as in that video. It's not perfect, but pretty good about 90% of the time.


I don't think the problem is that the scanner manufacturers can't fix this issue, I think it's a matter of cost. There's a reason digital scanners cost around $500, and a real digital radio costs $2,000 or more. They probably could build a scanner with better digital decoding, but who's going to pay that kind of money for one? Unlike a company like Motorola, Uniden and GRE sell their products mainly to people who listen as a hobby so they have to keep prices affordable. Even at $500, many possible customers are already priced out of the market. If the price on these things doubled, they probably wouldn't even sell enough units to cover the cost of production.

First of all, 90% of the time is not pretty decent, at least in my book. But I suppose it's better than nothing, and as nearly all emergency traffic in MN is on the system, you don't have much choice involved.

If it's a matter of cost (and it may or may not be), then both Uniden and GRE should stand up and add disclaimers to their marketing materials to say that systems with P25 simulcast cannot reliably be monitored with their gear.

But they won't, because there are people who think 90% is OK (not necessarily pointing the finger at you alone, of course). They continue to make money by selling this stuff, and again, it's been years, Surely they know what the issue is now. But no, no word from them.

I've upgraded my gear to get around this problem. Do note, it certainly wasn't $2,000.