New York Center on 6577 KHz

[nr2d]

I didn't know whether to post here or on the HF utility forum so I thought I would start here.

I was listening to New York Center on 5677 KHz tonight. Right around 1800 EST I noticed that
just about all communications disappeared except for a couple of very weak signals.

What frequency does NY Center go to after 1800 EST?

 

[BM82557]

 

[Ryangn]

MWARA - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

 

[ka3jjz]

Yes, 6577 (not 5677) is part of the CAR-A family. Likely after 2300 UT they went down in frequency because of the changing propagation...Mike

 

[AirScan]

It's not that always that accurate but a good place to start. The "Northeast U.S." frequencies correspond with the CAR-A family.

Atlantic HF Assignments

Displays frequency assignments for the Atlantic and Pacific oceans

radio.arinc.net

 

[ka3jjz]

Actually it looks like the page has just been updated. Go down to the very bottom and you will see a number of free PDF based charts that you can download. They are only as accurate as the webmaster deems the time to update the data. Keep in mind too that HF Aero voice has been pretty much invaded by SATCOM. HF is very likely a secondary use anymore. HFDL however is quite another matter.

Just as an aside - the flight you heard could have transited to another region (CAR-B or NAT-A) and NY Center would tell them what freq was next. They could have come into VHF range, too, and the Center would also tell them that.

Mike

 

[AI7PM]

I was listening to New York Center on 5677 KHz tonight....

You were listening to New York ARINC, not New York Center. The US centers do not use HF for direct ATC to aircraft comms. Those who require HF services relay to/from ATC via ARINC.

 

[nr2d]

KA3JJZ You are correct. I did have the frequency incorrect. it is 6577 KHz. Thanks all for the WIKI reference and charts.
As for FAA ATC or ARINC who are the operators, are they FAA ATC or ARINC?

 

[nr2d]

I think I've answered my question. Just listening for the last couple of hours it appears that the operators on 6577 KHz are not controllers.

 

[Lynch_Christopher]

KA3JJZ You are correct. I did have the frequency incorrect. it is 6577 KHz. Thanks all for the WIKI reference and charts.
As for FAA ATC or ARINC who are the operators, are they FAA ATC or ARINC?

Yepp the operators are ARINC. The controllers relay the message to the operators who then relay them to the pilots.
Satcom is starting to takeover and replace the HF. The HF is still used as a backup. I know most of it not all Jetblue E190s, A320s and A321s are equipped with satcom.

 

[alcahuete]

I think I've answered my question. Just listening for the last couple of hours it appears that the operators on 6577 KHz are not controllers.

As was answered, they are ARINC operators. There are a few telltale signs. Notice in the transmissions, they are required to say, "ATC Clears" or sometimes they will give the facility name, i.e. "Oakland Center Clears." ATC will give a direct clearance, as they are the ones clearing the aircraft. They also go by "xxx Radio." There is no ATC facility that goes by Radio.

 

[nr2d]

I have notice the call signs for the ground stations, New York radio. Also noticed the ATC clearances as stated. I've just never really listened to the HF aircraft operations much. The only HF station, besides my own station, I've worked on the was the FAA VOLMET station at Warren Grove, NJ and then it was only to troubleshoot a couple of problems.

We did have an HF station at the FAA Tech Center but it was retired many years ago and did not handle any aircraft comms.

 

[invergordon]

I see the terminology used such as "Satcom is taking over from HF" being mentioned more and more and I would like to clarify what (hopefully) the users of that phrase actually mean.

Satcom covers a range of services provided by a myriad of ground stations such as ATC, Maritime, Military and Rescue and in just about all cases this can include voice, digital and analogue transmissions via a satellite.

In this particular context Satcom is used to exchange digitaly formatted instructions direct from ATC to a particular flight and is called Controller to Pilot Data Link Communication (referred to as either CPDLC or just data link).

While this essentially removes a relay process when ATC instructions are passed to an HF radio operator the HF ground stations accross the world are still required in most cases to make contact with a flight to ensure that the HF system between the two still function in case of CPDLC failure, which here in the South Pacific happens reasonable regularly.

The takeaways from this is that HF aeronautical transmissions are far from dead and most flights must touch base with a ground station at an early point in their journey.

I still enjoy the hobby of listening to HF, hearing and decoding the SELCAL codes sent and following the flight for as long as there is communication.

Don't despair, there's much to hear still on HF.

 

[SKYWARN]

I see the terminology used such as "Satcom is taking over from HF" being mentioned more and more and I would like to clarify what (hopefully) the users of that phrase actually mean.

Satcom covers a range of services provided by a myriad of ground stations such as ATC, Maritime, Military and Rescue and in just about all cases this can include voice, digital and analogue transmissions via a satellite.

In this particular context Satcom is used to exchange digitaly formatted instructions direct from ATC to a particular flight and is called Controller to Pilot Data Link Communication (referred to as either CPDLC or just data link).

While this essentially removes a relay process when ATC instructions are passed to an HF radio operator the HF ground stations accross the world are still required in most cases to make contact with a flight to ensure that the HF system between the two still function in case of CPDLC failure, which here in the South Pacific happens reasonable regularly.

The takeaways from this is that HF aeronautical transmissions are far from dead and most flights must touch base with a ground station at an early point in their journey.

I still enjoy the hobby of listening to HF, hearing and decoding the SELCAL codes sent and following the flight for as long as there is communication.

Don't despair, there's much to hear still on HF.

Yes sir you are absolutely correct. I have a friend that's involved in the ARINC company. That's what him and I spoke about just a few weeks back. HF aeronautical radio coms will be around for while to come. Kd4jrx