• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

nexedge multi site trunk tech questions

Status
Not open for further replies.

people

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
7
Location
High River, Alberta
Is there any Nexedge multisite trunk admins out there?

I know I could get information from contacting Kenwood directly but I like to get a feel for a system by talking to the ones that have to deal with them from a technical side.

How does nexedge deal with a multisite trunking system on a 1 or 2 channel site, do you need a control channel?
What do you like about your system and not like about it? Would you do anything differently?

Feel free to private message if you don't want to answer publicly.
 

slicerwizard

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Messages
7,777
Location
Toronto, Ontario
NEXEDGE systems support composite control channels; they switch from CC duty to carrying voice calls when required. A single channel site has to use a composite control - otherwise, no voice support.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
26,405
Location
United States
My system is single site right now, but I'll be adding a second site in the next 9 months.

I'm using a dedicated control channel, and will at the second site. Main site is 5 channels total. Second site will probably be 3 channels total.

I've been running this system for a few years now and don't have any complaints.
-I'm running NXR-900 repeaters. They put out 350mw and we feed that into an outboard RF amp. makes spares a bit easier to deal with. I have one spare repeater and one spare RF amp on site. I've never needed them.
-Get the high stability temperature controlled crystal oscillators. They are an option, and I wish I'd added them originally.
-If you have a lot of radios to manage, get the OTAP (Over The Air Programming) system. It really makes life easy when you need to update radio programming.
-Look at what your uses will be. If it's just voice, the 6.25KHz "Very Narrow" will work fine. If you plan on running any data, the 12.5KHz "Narrow" will give you some more throughput.
-Make sure you get the RX/TX equalizers set up right. Getting them set up right really helps these systems sound good. Kenwood has a good primer document on this.

Our system has been very stable and reliable. The trunking relies on Ethernet connections between the repeaters. Make sure your Ethernet switch is backed up off the same power source as your repeaters. I'm using a 12 volt - 110 volt AC 750VA rack mount inverter. If your Ethernet connection goes down, the trunking stops and it goes into a "failsoft" mode. Not a big deal, but it can confuse the users.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
26,405
Location
United States
I've played with it, but not much.
I've got it set up on my work truck. I tried to get a few of my "customers" interested in it, but no takers.
 

kd4efm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 14, 2002
Messages
2,987
Location
EL98 Florida
Multi-site Trunking Type C

I work with a multi site (soon to be 25 sites) in Florida.
We have sites ranging from 1 channel (gap fillers) to 7 repeater sites with 2 rolling control channels.
(majority is 3 channel on up)

This is a multi radio shop venture also, the big key in this all is the owners working together to
serve their customer with communications, and the ability to roam through various areas.

The Florida NXDN Network is a fast growing network of sites, and so far, one of the best running systems.
Coverage will soon be Key West to Jacksonville (I-95 coverage) and Daytona to Tampa (I-4 corridor),
work is in progress for South West Florida and the I-75 areas Tampa northward.

AVL; you need depth in the system to really have an AVL network working good, otherwise you can swap
your control channel quickly. I have AVL on PTT and on demand (when polled) on my NX-5300/5800 and NX-800.
Several customer are also setup that way with PTT AVL. If you need AVL with a big customer, use a cellular source
of AVL-GPS. Other option is to set up a Stand Alone NXR-x10 for GPS on a conventional channel (NX can channel stear GPS)

Consoles; by far I am impressed with NexeTALK, true ip dispatching and AVL tracking.

Sites; I feel it is better to have a static IP for each site, this keeps your VPN stable between sites.
Plan on no less than 2 repeaters per 60 user, spec says 90 but that can get chewed up on a big client.
In heavy user areas (like a garbage company) better plan on 3 absolute minimum repeaters.
*Another thing, if you can get FB8's (not paper loading) get at least 2 FB8's for your control channels per site
I know McKenna mentioned several other things, so I won't repeat those, but 6.25 or VNFM is the way to go if your going to have multiple sites. Single site you can use either 12.5 or 6.25, but things seem
to work better at 6.25.
(psst save the money and get the 10 Mhz oscillators on ebay, forgot the name of the seller but a 24vDC
costs around 150 to 200$, so long as you have one, the system works great) I am using EF Johnson
Viking Oscilators from our old 800 trunking system, has 1.25Khz and 10Mhz clocks) old but very stable.
Another tid-bit, is you go more than 10 repeaters deep, you will need to oscillate the next set beyond 10,
I have heard reports of 15 repeaters on one oscillator getting out of sync due to the time signal being at
-110 dBm on the 13th through 15th repeater. Just saying.

Have your site build out on paper and make good notes as your building out. It's very easy to lose
train of thought on a massive build-out, but in the long run, you will find people like the Kenwood
sound and use better than that batwing system. (wink wink)

EFM
 
Last edited:

people

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
7
Location
High River, Alberta
Thanks for the info kd4efm and mmckenna

I'm in the very early stages of exploring options at a system upgrade and coverage increase to our current 5 sites (single repeater / freq pair) conventional analog system which is not linked at all. And to add to it, the sites are being shared by 3 separate departments including fire department with CTCSS. If you want to piss off a fire chief and have a safety issue, have a public works guy talk about going for coffee well someone is in a burning building.

My first step is how many current devices (mobiles, portables and pagers) out there and how many we already have that are nexedge and match that with our current licensing.

Sencond thing I have to look into is what to do with fire department pagers if there are many out there. I'm amazed there isn't a voice pager for NXDN like the voice pagers for analog systems by now with all the volunteer fire departments out there.

My AVL issue is that cell service in my area is really bad and only covers about 1/4 of the county.

VA6TDS
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
26,405
Location
United States
Sencond thing I have to look into is what to do with fire department pagers if there are many out there. I'm amazed there isn't a voice pager for NXDN like the voice pagers for analog systems by now with all the volunteer fire departments out there.
VA6TDS

As an option:
Consider one of the basic/small NXDN portable radios. Might be similar in price to high end pagers. Bonus is they can answer back.

Or, you can still run analog on one of the channels. The NXDN radios will do "mixed" mode in conventional.
 

cadkins

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2009
Messages
10
mmckenna can you provide the name or a link to the document you mentioned to make a Nexedge system sound good?
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
26,405
Location
United States
It's an internal Kenwood training document. I have not seen it on the web.
I'll dig up the file later on tonight and post the details.
 

kd4efm

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 14, 2002
Messages
2,987
Location
EL98 Florida
Have to ask, sound good? Are you running 12.5 or 6.25? I have to say, hands down the 6.25 sounds better than MotoTRBO. PERIOD!
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
26,405
Location
United States
I'm running 12.5KHz and it sounds great when the radio settings are correct.

We compared MotoTrbo and NexEdge side by side and I always felt the NexEdge sounded a little better, but I'm sure that'll get the Moto-fanboys up in a froth.
To be fair, I changed our PD from Moto MTS2000 and XTS2500 VHF's to new NX-210s and TK-5710 mobiles all running analog. I've received several reports from our officers that they like the Kenwood audio better than the older Motorolas.
 

JRayfield

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
797
Location
Springfield, MO
In regards to control channels, do they transmit continuously or do they 'pulse' (transmit every x number of seconds for a short 'burst')?

John Rayfield, Jr.


I work with a multi site (soon to be 25 sites) in Florida.
We have sites ranging from 1 channel (gap fillers) to 7 repeater sites with 2 rolling control channels.
(majority is 3 channel on up)

This is a multi radio shop venture also, the big key in this all is the owners working together to
serve their customer with communications, and the ability to roam through various areas.

The Florida NXDN Network is a fast growing network of sites, and so far, one of the best running systems.
Coverage will soon be Key West to Jacksonville (I-95 coverage) and Daytona to Tampa (I-4 corridor),
work is in progress for South West Florida and the I-75 areas Tampa northward.

AVL; you need depth in the system to really have an AVL network working good, otherwise you can swap
your control channel quickly. I have AVL on PTT and on demand (when polled) on my NX-5300/5800 and NX-800.
Several customer are also setup that way with PTT AVL. If you need AVL with a big customer, use a cellular source
of AVL-GPS. Other option is to set up a Stand Alone NXR-x10 for GPS on a conventional channel (NX can channel stear GPS)

Consoles; by far I am impressed with NexeTALK, true ip dispatching and AVL tracking.

Sites; I feel it is better to have a static IP for each site, this keeps your VPN stable between sites.
Plan on no less than 2 repeaters per 60 user, spec says 90 but that can get chewed up on a big client.
In heavy user areas (like a garbage company) better plan on 3 absolute minimum repeaters.
*Another thing, if you can get FB8's (not paper loading) get at least 2 FB8's for your control channels per site
I know McKenna mentioned several other things, so I won't repeat those, but 6.25 or VNFM is the way to go if your going to have multiple sites. Single site you can use either 12.5 or 6.25, but things seem
to work better at 6.25.
(psst save the money and get the 10 Mhz oscillators on ebay, forgot the name of the seller but a 24vDC
costs around 150 to 200$, so long as you have one, the system works great) I am using EF Johnson
Viking Oscilators from our old 800 trunking system, has 1.25Khz and 10Mhz clocks) old but very stable.
Another tid-bit, is you go more than 10 repeaters deep, you will need to oscillate the next set beyond 10,
I have heard reports of 15 repeaters on one oscillator getting out of sync due to the time signal being at
-110 dBm on the 13th through 15th repeater. Just saying.

Have your site build out on paper and make good notes as your building out. It's very easy to lose
train of thought on a massive build-out, but in the long run, you will find people like the Kenwood
sound and use better than that batwing system. (wink wink)

EFM
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
26,405
Location
United States
Depends. I have our site set up for a dedicated control channel. Rolls over every 24 hours. You can set up a NexEdge system to have a non-dedicated control channel. Works well on smaller sites where you can press the control channel into use as a voice channel if system load demands it.

Coming from a 5 channel SmartNet system with a dedicated control channel, I just felt more comfortable with that set up. 99.999% of the time we don't exceed our system capacity. That .001% the users will adapt.
 

JRayfield

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
797
Location
Springfield, MO
But during the time that it's acting as a control channel, it is transmitting 100% of the time?

John Rayfield, Jr.

Depends. I have our site set up for a dedicated control channel. Rolls over every 24 hours. You can set up a NexEdge system to have a non-dedicated control channel. Works well on smaller sites where you can press the control channel into use as a voice channel if system load demands it.

Coming from a 5 channel SmartNet system with a dedicated control channel, I just felt more comfortable with that set up. 99.999% of the time we don't exceed our system capacity. That .001% the users will adapt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top