NIST proposed budget includes shutdown of WWV and WWVH

[Boombox]

But how many people (other than hobbyists) have access to a short wave radio, and understand how to use it? With propagation and atmospheric noise issues, issues in heavy urban areas and lack of universal acceptance (compared to am/fm) the value of WWV as an emergency notification source is limited.
I'd think that there are many more NOAA capable radios out there in the hands of the public. NOAA is already a well established source of emergency alerts.

I was referring to Government uses more than civilians. Keep the transmitters up and running, and come up with an accessory use for government comm's (perhaps digital transmissions). In the meantime, the stations would still be on the air for SWLs, Hams, and whoever else uses them for whatever reason the rest of the time.

Because if the big one hits, a lot of the internet, satellite, etc. may not be working perfunctorily.

And NOAA is dependent on the power grid, also. The transmitters could lose power. Especially during a massive earthquake, EMP, or volcanic activity. FEMA estimates that during the coming Juan De Fuca 9 pointer, everything west of I-5 will basically be 'toast'. That includes powerlines.

In situations like that, governmental use of HF might be helpful. Like I said, the Military doesn't use HF just for fun. It's a back up system.

Of course, all that I'm saying will mean nothing to the powers that be. They will do whatever they do. It's nice to speculate, though.

 

[jonwienke]

WWV is just as dependent on the power grid as NOAA stations. Assuming similar levels of disaster preparedness, a network of multiple transmitters is going to be harder to kill completely than a single "all the eggs in one basket" site.

 

[N4GIX]

I never knew you could buy your own cesium clock. That's got to be the epitome of gadget freakery.

My friend W9CTO has two of them in his shop. They are a requirement whenever he calibrates service equipment and tags it with a NIST-traceable Certificate of Calibration and sticker.

I was visiting with him a few weeks ago and he was working on three of them he'd been sent to repair and calibrate. His services don't come cheaply either. He charges $650 just for an annual calibration...

Being quite a bit poorer, I only have a single 10 MHz rubidium standard for my hobby shop...

 

[bharvey2]

Being quite a bit poorer, I only have a single 10 MHz rubidium standard for my hobby shop...

Beats the heck out of my sundial !

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. It made me think of the scene in the movie Jaws, where they're on the boat, comparing scars.)

 

[N4GIX]

Beats the heck out of my sundial !

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. It made me think of the scene in the movie Jaws, where they're on the boat, comparing scars.)

No problem with some humor! Actually I don't use it to "tell time" so much as use it to "set timing" on my Aeroflex IFR-1200 Super S service monitor as it provides a dead accurate 10 MHz reference signal. This guarantees that anything I align will be ~0.002 ppm accurate.

 

[bharvey2]

No problem with some humor! Actually I don't use it to "tell time" so much as use it to "set timing" on my Aeroflex IFR-1200 Super S service monitor as it provides a dead accurate 10 MHz reference signal. This guarantees that anything I align will be ~0.002 ppm accurate.

I figured as such. I've got a few scopes, signal generators and various other test/service equipment but alas, no service monitor. Radio has always been a hobby, not a business so I've had no need for one. I can be a bit envious though!

 

[N4GIX]

I figured as such. I've got a few scopes, signal generators and various other test/service equipment but alas, no service monitor. Radio has always been a hobby, not a business so I've had no need for one. I can be a bit envious though!

These days I use my equipment to keep my fellow hams' and my own radios in prime condition. It's more of an extension of my hobby than a business...

When I sold my GE Service Station back in the late eighties, all of the tools and service equipment went with the sale. I've since slowly gathered together replacement equipment as available and needed. Most of it I've obtained by good old-fashioned "horse trading."

 

[bharvey2]

These days I use my equipment to keep my fellow hams' and my own radios in prime condition. It's more of an extension of my hobby than a business...

When I sold my GE Service Station back in the late eighties, all of the tools and service equipment went with the sale. I've since slowly gathered together replacement equipment as available and needed. Most of it I've obtained by good old-fashioned "horse trading."

Well, there's my problem: No horses!

I go to the local swap meets every once in a while but don't recall ever seeing a service monitor. Maybe I'm going too late or they're in the vendors "private reserve". I do have a few service manuals for some older radios so I guess that's a start.

 

[Boombox]

WWV is just as dependent on the power grid as NOAA stations. Assuming similar levels of disaster preparedness, a network of multiple transmitters is going to be harder to kill completely than a single "all the eggs in one basket" site.

If they were to be used in cases of national disaster, it only stands to reason they would have diesel generators, as many key MW stations across the country do (under a Federal Government emergency plan). The WWV transmitters already cover the country, they could be put to some use.

Diesel generators for radio facilities are not uncommon. The place where I used to work even had one. Many key cell towers apparently have them also.

RE: NOAA stations: they may or may not have the generators, but their feed comes via the internet, or other relays, which may be down after a 9 pointer.

 

[AB4BF]

I'll let the president of our club give this information. Both petitions MUST be signed to make them work in this case. These are White House petitions that must have a valid e-mail address.

"Many of you are aware of the plans to discontinue funding for WWV which is a radio station that broadcasts time and frequency information 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There are millions of listeners as well as receivers throughout the entire world that use the broadcast to maintain time and frequency standards. This service is critical to an unfathomable number of operations worldwide. You may learn more about WWV and WWVH by visiting https://www.nist.gov/pml/time-and-frequency-division/radio-stations/wwv

Below is information regarding two petitions to help secure/maintain funding for this service, both with links to the respective petition. Both petitions must be signed and signed using a valid email address so the petition signature can be verified and must be signed by September 15, 2018. If you so desire, you may sign both petitions and share this information with others so they may also sign the petitions."

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv-wwvh

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/proposed-shutdown-nists-wwv-and-wwvh-radio-stations

You can also get information from Wikipedia about WWV and associated time signal transmissions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWV_(radio_station)

Here's what ARRL has to say:

NIST FY 2019 Budget Would Eliminate WWV and WWVH

One more thing, please contact your two senators and congress person to help facilitate this.

Thanks,
AB4BF

 

[wa9niz]

Given the pitiful progress of signatures on those petitions they themselves might be used a reason to shutoff WWV.

Hams are not the only ones that have bought "atomic" devices. Maybe a strong effort on social media is in order to get the rest of the population involved.

 

[SteveSimpkin]

From the article at SWLing:
"UPDATE: I’ve received a number of questions about Fort Collins-based station WWVB and if it would also be included in the closures. As the budget states, it includes: “the shutdown of NIST radio stations in Colorado and Hawaii.” At the budget’s current iteration, this implies all NIST radios stations including WWVB."

WWVB is still used to update the time on over tens of millions of wall clocks, desk clocks and watches. This is not a function that can easily be replaced by GPS receivers.

https://swling.com/blog/2018/08/nist-fy2019-budget-includes-request-to-shutdown-wwv-and-wwvh/

 

[KK4JUG]

Both my Citizen and Casio watches will become Timex watches if they decide to shut down the network, Most of the clocks in my house are "atomic." It will end up being a big waste of money.

 

[riverrat373]

What happens if we have a major EMF event from either the sun or other reasons? It would be much faster and easier to get WWV back on the air than all the GPS satellites!

 

[KK4JUG]

What happens if we have a major EMF event from either the sun or other reasons? It would be much faster and easier to get WWV back on the air than all the GPS satellites!

Not to worry. Those things happen to other people (or galaxies).

 

[bharvey2]

What happens if we have a major EMF event from either the sun or other reasons? It would be much faster and easier to get WWV back on the air than all the GPS satellites!

It seems that planning ahead isn't "en vogue" anymore.

 

[w2xq]

Posted today by Richard Cuff...

Funding for the US Department of Commerce, which includes NIST and WWV / WWVH / WWVB, was authorized through December 7th, 2018 as part of the Continuing Resolution component of the Defense / Education / HHS / Labor FY2019 funding bill that was approved by the House on September 26 and signed by President Trump yesterday, September 28th.

This averted an end-of-Fiscal-year shutdown that had been mildly threatened in the past few months.

This approach kicks the can down the road until December 7th -- it funds all agencies other than Defense / Labor / HHS / Education at the same levels they received in FY 2018 for all continuing activities -- which would include the time stations because there was no Congressional or Agency action to shut them down in FY18.

This date could mean that no further actions will be taken until after mid-term elections, though that's not known for a fact.

Details on the bill as passed and signed: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/6157/text

Richard Cuff / Allentown, PA USA
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[needairtime]

I posted this issue on a few websites I frequent trying to raise awareness of WWV (well, specifically WWVB) and got a lot of throwback claiming it's an antiquated system that's no longer useful. I was kind of appalled by the response, many people claiming it's a great way to cut back government spending and rather people pay for their own accurate clocks and don't care about all those "atomic" clocks in service now (which, incidentally, could have crappy PPM crystals assuming that WWV will keep it accurate!).

The funny thing being that some stratum 0 NTP servers are based off of WWV time, and people depend on NTP... Granted as it's not the only way to get time of date.

Then there are those people who want to buy their own rubidium clock or TCXO, but they still won't get leap seconds that NIST adds in as necessary.

 

[riverrat373]

I posted this issue on a few websites I frequent trying to raise awareness of WWV (well, specifically WWVB) and got a lot of throwback claiming it's an antiquated system that's no longer useful. I was kind of appalled by the response, many people claiming it's a great way to cut back government spending and rather people pay for their own accurate clocks and don't care about all those "atomic" clocks in service now (which, incidentally, could have crappy PPM crystals assuming that WWV will keep it accurate!).

The funny thing being that some stratum 0 NTP servers are based off of WWV time, and people depend on NTP... Granted as it's not the only way to get time of date.

Then there are those people who want to buy their own rubidium clock or TCXO, but they still won't get leap seconds that NIST adds in as necessary.

I feel that the system is very important! As told to mariners, "never rely on only one system for navigation"! I think that too many people rely on GPS to always be available!

 

[KK4JUG]

I feel that the system is very important! As told to mariners, "never rely on only one system for navigation"! I think that too many people rely on GPS to always be available!

...and reliable and we know that's not always the case, either.