XTL/XTS5000 Non APX radios that will work on NJICS

[TriStateMedic]

Hi there, Im not a big radio guy, so I won't really understand in-depth explanations. I'm just putting some feelers out for basic information. My service is looking into getting a portable radio to use keep on our trucks that will interface with the NJICS 700/800 system so we can communicate with different EMS/Fire providers in our area. I understand that pretty much everyone in our local area is now on NJICS and they are using APX radios. As we're not flush with cash, it seemed to me that we could use older XTS5000's, or maybe even the 2500 or 3000. Is this correct? I know there's an APX4000 that's more affordable, but like I said, we're trying to keep costs down as we don't really need the complete interoperability that the full fledged radios offer. If there's an even better way to do this, I'm all ears. Thanks.

 

[Thunderknight]

I believe NJICS is P25 Phase 2, so you can not use an XTS/XTL. They are Phase 1 only.

 

[ecps92]

you are best to reach out to NJICS Admin and determine what they allow on their system and then explain your additional requirements/needs.

Hi there, Im not a big radio guy, so I won't really understand in-depth explanations. I'm just putting some feelers out for basic information. My service is looking into getting a portable radio to use keep on our trucks that will interface with the NJICS 700/800 system so we can communicate with different EMS/Fire providers in our area. I understand that pretty much everyone in our local area is now on NJICS and they are using APX radios. As we're not flush with cash, it seemed to me that we could use older XTS5000's, or maybe even the 2500 or 3000. Is this correct? I know there's an APX4000 that's more affordable, but like I said, we're trying to keep costs down as we don't really need the complete interoperability that the full fledged radios offer. If there's an even better way to do this, I'm all ears. Thanks.

 

[GTR8000]

The majority of non-state talkgroups on NJICS are operating in TDMA mode exclusively, so it's highly unlikely that you would be allowed to use an FDMA-only radio on the system. And as @ecps92 stated, a hobby website is not the place to be asking this question, you need to go through official channels and reach out to the state directly.

 

[MTS2000des]

Project 25 - Contact Us

State of New Jersey Project 25 website

www.nj.gov

 

[TriStateMedic]

Of course we will be reaching out to NJICS for guidance, but essentially its up to us to purchase a radio. If the XTS/L ones aren't appropriate, we'll figure something out. I have no idea if that NJICS website contact info is current, it lists Chris Christie as the Governor. But, its a start. Thanks for the help.

 

[GTR8000]

Take a look at the Kenwood NX or EFJ Viking series. They are TDMA capable and aren't as pricy as the APX series.

 

[K2NEC]

I think the APX900 is a rather budget friendly radio compared to some of the higher end APX models. Unfortunately you still pay for features. The Harris XL series offer some good options as well and they are cheaper than the APX series

 

[ecps92]

true it is up to you to fund it, but your playing in their sand box, so they can tell you what make/models they allow on their system.

So before wasting time looking around, find out from the owner/admin what they allow, and likely they have a blanket contract
you can likely get in on for better pricing.

Of course we will be reaching out to NJICS for guidance, but essentially its up to us to purchase a radio. If the XTS/L ones aren't appropriate, we'll figure something out. I have no idea if that NJICS website contact info is current, it lists Chris Christie as the Governor. But, its a start. Thanks for the help.

 

[Markscan]

We use a mixture of APX 6000, 4000, and 900 for my EMS agency. We tested Motorola, Harris and Tait radios. Ultimately we went with Motorola. Be advised you will have to have memorandums of understanding with other agencies you will communicate with. But the system works very well.

 

[ElroyJetson]

For an agency on a budget, look at BK Radio's BK5000 series.

 

[cavmedic]

For an agency on a budget, look at BK Radio's BK5000 series.

Id be willing to bet that the the Moto contract specifically requires an APX purchased from their vendor specified.

 

[Markscan]

Id be willing to bet that the the Moto contract specifically requires an APX purchased from their vendor specified.

Not that I am aware of. I’ve seen other agencies using Harris and some using Tait.

 

[GTR8000]

Id be willing to bet that the the Moto contract specifically requires an APX purchased from their vendor specified.

MSI has no say in what radios are provisioned on an ASTRO 25 system. Any customer that would agree to any sort of language like that in the annual maintenance contract would be completely out of their minds. It's simply not a thing.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Unless they sold the customer some vendor-specific features, that is....

You know that's happened.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so maddening: Everybody beats the "interoperable standards" drum as loud as they can, but once they are actually negotiating a contract, the salesdroid does everything he can to sell the customer at least one unneeded "security enhancing" proprietary feature that locks the customer to that one brand. Such as ESK, or CC Shuffle/Shuffled Bandplan. Or ADP or whatever Harris calls the equivalent.

I don't know if the P25 standards organization ever quashed that kind of behavior or not. But they should.

 

[GTR8000]

ADP hasn't been a proprietary feature for several years now; all major vendors now offer it in their P25 subscribers.

Oh and far be it for me to defend MSI, but the whole "they sold the customer..." thing is a bit old. The plain fact is that plenty of customers know exactly what they're doing when they spec these systems, and part of the little game a lot of agencies play is to put wording in the RFP/bid language that purposely include exclusive/proprietary technology so that they can basically automatically exclude other vendors. The fire service has been playing that game for decades in order to get exactly the brand of apparatus they want. You know, like how we made sure to spec "independent front suspension and fly-by-wire controls" for our tower ladder back in 2001 because Pierce was the only manufacturer that offered it at the time.

Please stop with the silly narrative that the customers are so naive and don't know what they're getting into, and that MSI's sales team is so clever as to pull the wool over the eyes of thousands of customers over the years. Yes, a small percentage might be gullible, but the majority are not.

 

[MTS2000des]

We allow any P25 compatible subscriber on our Astro 25 system. We only require the ability to program subscribers, control the system keys and require a master which all P25 radio vendors sans Icom have provided us. We test them to make sure things like dynamic regroup, radio check, selector lock, and of course selective inhibit work. We make sure failsoft by talkgroup works. If customer wants brand X radio, so long as we've tested it, then customer can buy it. Customer also understands it is up to them to maintain said fleet .

We aren't unique, most large municipal systems are run this way. In 7 years of running this system since it was a project, I've NEVER heard MSI, our local shop or anyone tell us we can't or should not allow any other vendors' subscriber on OUR system.

 

[NVAGVUP]

ADP hasn't been a proprietary feature for several years now; all major vendors now offer it in their P25 subscribers.

Oh and far be it for me to defend MSI, but the whole "they sold the customer..." thing is a bit old. The plain fact is that plenty of customers know exactly what they're doing when they spec these systems, and part of the little game a lot of agencies play is to put wording in the RFP/bid language that purposely include exclusive/proprietary technology so that they can basically automatically exclude other vendors. The fire service has been playing that game for decades in order to get exactly the brand of apparatus they want. You know, like how we made sure to spec "independent front suspension and fly-by-wire controls" for our tower ladder back in 2001 because Pierce was the only manufacturer that offered it at the time.

Please stop with the silly narrative that the customers are so naive and don't know what they're getting into, and that MSI's sales team is so clever as to pull the wool over the eyes of thousands of customers over the years. Yes, a small percentage might be gullible, but the majority are not.

Ding ding. I oversee a ton of radios for multiple agencies. All different mfg/models (P25 Phase 1 trunked) I had the fortune of being PM on recent deployment (~ 2800 radios) ALL APX's (And include a useful option. See #5). Why? (Multiple reasons)

1-Moto builds good boxes

2-Prefered contract pricing.

3-Single mfg/neck to choke

4- Other misc reasons/Etc

5- And a non P25 feature "Group Services". (This feature allows radios to display radio aliases as identified in PM. Users can make name changes, those changes are updated in PM, and all field radios now see updated alias. (After one PTT). No radio programming required. I am not aware of any other mfg to offer this capability. (And yes it has to be on a Moto Trunked system from my research. Maybe of system mfg offer same capability. But the 2 state systems I work with are Moto)

As a database mgr, this is a god send! Radios are moved to new vehicle #'s, radios are assigned to different officers, etc. As long as I am notified, 2800+ radio alias's are updated and accurate. And all APX's see updated alias.

Is anyone telling these users (or me!) not to have this feature because it is NOT in P25 standards? Good luck.

 

[GTR8000]

Group Services is a great example of an extremely useful proprietary MSI feature that is only available with an ASTRO 25 system with APX subscribers. It's also a great example of a proprietary feature that doesn't negatively affect other brands of subscribers. They simply ignore the OTA aliases being encoded on the traffic channels because they don't understand those messages.

 

[wa8pyr]

Take a look at the Kenwood NX or EFJ Viking series. They are TDMA capable and aren't as pricy as the APX series.

Or the more recent Harris offerings (XG and XL series). Also not as pricey as the Moneyrola stuff.