• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.
  • Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Non-profit users of FRS / GMRS radio at 1.5W power

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
3
Location
spareparts
#1
So here the question: A non-profit (Church, museum, school as examples) may or not use FRS/GMRS portable radios at 1.5W of power?

For background, the radio fleet is a mix of bubble pack radios and baofengs.

The subtleties of a 16 Chanel radio and what channels to use at what power level might be a bit much.

Reference / link to the CFR would be helpful.
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
7,829
Location
Wichita Falls, TX
#2
Baofeng radios are not legal to use on FRS or GMRS because they are not Part 95 certified.

The FCC recently changed the rules so that common Part 95 certified FRS/GMRS dual-service bubble pack type 2 watt radios are reclassified as FRS and can be used without a GMRS license.
http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2017/db0519/FCC-17-57A1.pdf
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/08/29/2017-17395/personal-radio-service-reform

Here is a table of bandwidth and power requirements for the new rules.
https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/FRS/GMRS_combined_channel_chart
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
3
Location
spareparts
#3
Tom,
Baofeng are not type accepted (removable antenna issue) got it.

So a non-profit or business can now go out and purchase bubble pack radios and use them without a license on any of the 22 GMRS channels, provided the radio is smart enough to reduce power to 0.5W on channels 8-14

Thanks

SP
 

SteveC0625

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
2,559
Location
Northville, NY (Fulton County)
#5
So a non-profit or business can now go out and purchase bubble pack radios and use them without a license on any of the 22 GMRS channels, provided the radio is smart enough to reduce power to 0.5W on channels 8-14.
Anyone can use the FRS/GMRS (bubble-packs) radios at full power on 1-7 and 15-22 effective 9/28/2017. Doesn't matter if it's a business, a non-profit, or just plain folks. It's "license by rule" meaning that as long as they follow the rules, there's no formal license required.

All of the current bubble-packs will only do 0.5 watt on 8-14. There's no high power for them and that limitation is built into all of the radios.

FWIW, the FRS side was always legal for anyone to use including non-profits. Yeah, a lot of businesses including non-profits operated on the GMRS only channels at higher power all along. The FCC never did much if anything in the way of enforcement on that, and the new rules basically affirm that. It's just not something to fret about.
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,988
#7
So here the question: A non-profit (Church, museum, school as examples) may or not use FRS/GMRS portable radios at 1.5W of power?

For background, the radio fleet is a mix of bubble pack radios and baofengs.

The subtleties of a 16 Chanel radio and what channels to use at what power level might be a bit much.

Reference / link to the CFR would be helpful.
The Baofeng radios are specifically illegal for this use as they are not certified for Part 95 and have detachable antennas.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,988
#9
Most non profit organizations are perfectly eligible for a part 90 business frequency and would be better served by using proper part 90 radio equipment.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
65,126
Location
Virginia
#10
They should up the wattage for FRS only and then nobody would be trying to get around the restrictions.
Why not make it a higher power?
There is no service in which people can communicate legally to each other freely that has a high power .
You can't even do it half duplex.
I do get a kick out of all the legal beagles, these frequencies barely ever get used here in New Jersey, they are dead frequencies.
GMRS I hear the repeater ID once and awhile.
FRS is dead.
Kids have top of the line cellphones.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Messages
2,988
#12
They should up the wattage for FRS only and then nobody would be trying to get around the restrictions.
Why not make it a higher power?
There is no service in which people can communicate legally to each other freely that has a high power .
You can't even do it half duplex.
I do get a kick out of all the legal beagles, these frequencies barely ever get used here in New Jersey, they are dead frequencies.
GMRS I hear the repeater ID once and awhile.
FRS is dead.
Kids have top of the line cellphones.
It is illegal to modify an FRS radio for higher power. It is illegal to use a non certified radio for FRS. A non profit organization, can indeed obtain a part 90 license and use higher power equipment. It is surprising, to read yet another licensed amateur radio operator encouraging illegal operations in the Part 95 spectrum. Amateur radio operators go ballistic should one suggest using ham radio illegally. Hey why not, I live near a major metro area and there are dozens of ham repeaters that are unused.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
65,126
Location
Virginia
#13
power

It is illegal to modify an FRS radio for higher power. It is illegal to use a non certified radio for FRS. A non profit organization, can indeed obtain a part 90 license and use higher power equipment. It is surprising, to read yet another licensed amateur radio operator encouraging illegal operations in the Part 95 spectrum. Amateur radio operators go ballistic should one suggest using ham radio illegally. Hey why not, I live near a major metro area and there are dozens of ham repeaters that are unused.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

They do that here in NJ, use ham illegally, It happens all the time.Goons with Baofengs make noises,etc on local repeaters.
If you stuck to one frequency on FRS and ran 5 watts instead of 2 watts I am sure nobody would notice is my point.
CB supposed to be 4 watts and how many CB's are peaked and tuned?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
65,126
Location
Virginia
#15
no high power service is why

The FCC just did that.
2 watts is about as useful/reliable as nothing.A step in the right direction but still unrealistic.
5 watts with a Baofeng are what people want.
Thats why they buy it, Amazon sells thousands of the UV5R and UV82.

They should allow the public to have a higher power free communications service is what I am saying so people don't illegally modify their devices is what I am saying.I'm not condoning anything.I do feel they should legalize a high power FRS. 25 watt mobile and 5 watt walkie talkie.
I am telling you the proof, look at CB, thats your proof that people Want higher power devices that work to reliably communicate.
The FCC and government won't allow people to ever have such a free service is fact.
Years have passed and it has never happened.
How to do it? Spread spectrum is an idea. Cordless phones have this technology.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2016
Messages
233
Location
Upper Mojave,CA/NV
#16
They should up the wattage for FRS only and then nobody would be trying to get around the restrictions.
Why not make it a higher power?
There is no service in which people can communicate legally to each other freely that has a high power .
You can't even do it half duplex.
I do get a kick out of all the legal beagles, these frequencies barely ever get used here in New Jersey, they are dead frequencies.
GMRS I hear the repeater ID once and awhile.
FRS is dead.
Kids have top of the line cellphones.
FRS only does not mean that that is the only thing on that spectrum of 467.xxx. FRS only referred to the fact that before today only FRS could use those actual channels at those specific power levels, and even then now with the new rules the ERP is still restricted so as not to cause problems.

Those channels straddle the repeater inputs of GMRS. Since GMRS is still authorized wideband, too high of power would definitely cause interference or even be picked up and re-transmitted if it happens to be the right PL.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,461
Location
In the 'patch
#17
2 watts is about as useful/reliable as nothing.A step in the right direction but still unrealistic.
5 watts with a Baofeng are what people want.
Thats why they buy it, Amazon sells thousands of the UV5R and UV82.

You realize that the difference in distance you can talk between 2 watts and 5 watts is likely less than 50 meters. It's slightly over 3dB, right around half a S-unit...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top