• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Norman new 6 site phase II system

milton1991

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
19
Location
Norman, OK
#42
Don't know if this is public information at this point, but does anyone know how the city plans to handle encryption on the new radio system? My old town down in Texas decided to encrypt all of their police and fire channels a decade ago. I doubt we'd see a complete encryption in Norman with the fire channels, but I do wonder about PD - since both departments operate with surrounding agencies regularly (like today when the county had a K9 at the shooting/manhunt at Lindsay/McGee). I can't help but think that encrypting even basic dispatch would cause a hassle with multi-agency incidents.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
1,660
Location
O-o-o-o-o-o-o-klahoma
#43
Don't know if this is public information at this point, but does anyone know how the city plans to handle encryption on the new radio system? My old town down in Texas decided to encrypt all of their police and fire channels a decade ago. I doubt we'd see a complete encryption in Norman with the fire channels, but I do wonder about PD - since both departments operate with surrounding agencies regularly (like today when the county had a K9 at the shooting/manhunt at Lindsay/McGee). I can't help but think that encrypting even basic dispatch would cause a hassle with multi-agency incidents.
I can't imagine they won't flip the switch. To me, the only question is whether or not fire goes too. It's Norman. They don't like the citizens knowing what's going on. :lol: Besides, we're a big and important target for the terraists - can't be too careful. What's that? NYPD is in the clear? Well, still, we're Norman. :D

I have been running my radio in "discovery" modes since I first noticed the system seemed to be up. I didn't think to run it in that mode the only day I heard traffic (see above). I've heard/seen nothing since, though the system is clearly up.
 

milton1991

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
19
Location
Norman, OK
#44
I can't imagine they won't flip the switch. To me, the only question is whether or not fire goes too. It's Norman. They don't like the citizens knowing what's going on. :lol: Besides, we're a big and important target for the terraists - can't be too careful. What's that? NYPD is in the clear? Well, still, we're Norman. :D

I have been running my radio in "discovery" modes since I first noticed the system seemed to be up. I didn't think to run it in that mode the only day I heard traffic (see above). I've heard/seen nothing since, though the system is clearly up.
The bits and pieces I've heard from various folks on the 'fire' side are that they aren't anticipating encryption, but obviously, those are just rumors. I really can't imagine they'd encrypt the dispatch and fireground channels with the amount of mutual aid we deal with in the county. (Need I remind anyone that Moore is in Cleveland county and that they're overdue for their every 4-6 year violent tornado?). Travis King (Norman's Fire Chief) has been making much-needed improvements over the last several years and that includes improving mutual aid relations. God knows that departments like Lexington, Slaughterville, and Cedar Country can't afford to purchase 'fancy radios'. Little Axe FD is part of the new radio system.

Like you said though, it is Norman and the politicians do like to do stupid things. Luckily we have a few thousand folks in an online 'county' scanner group that would raise one big ruckus if that happened.

On a separate note, the current Cleveland County Fire feed on Broadcastify is going to have to be replaced as the current operator doesn't have the necessary equipment to keep running it with the new radio system (so I've interpreted from an email conversation). It's actually been running nothing but static for several weeks now. Once I get some money saved up I'm hoping to buy another Phase 2 scanner. I've already got the computer, UPS, and the necessary internet contingencies to provide a feed. I have my own scanner, but I miss having the ability to listen to archived traffic.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
1,660
Location
O-o-o-o-o-o-o-klahoma
#45
I have been running my radio in "discovery" modes since I first noticed the system seemed to be up. I didn't think to run it in that mode the only day I heard traffic (see above). I've heard/seen nothing since, though the system is clearly up.

Only TGs that have shown up so far are 64051 (many times) and 64053 (like, twice). All testing testing 1,2,3 stuff.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
1,660
Location
O-o-o-o-o-o-o-klahoma
#47
Those look like Harris acceptance testing talkgroups
Given who is building the system and what the traffic sounded like, that certainly fits.

I guess I need to add this system to my scan list rather than sitting on "discovery". There is a home football game yesterday (I think they are playing the team from that charming little technical school up in Stillwater) so if there is going to be any "battle testing" tomorrow would be a good day.

That's probably pre-mature - I don't even know if all the towers are in service.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
1,660
Location
O-o-o-o-o-o-o-klahoma
#48
More testing lately. Even hearing traffic that sounds like it might be relayed from one of Norman's OKWIN groups. 64001 is the TG of the day.

Reviewing the traffic tidbits (thanks, UPMan) on my 436, it's def city traffic. I wouldn't say this was the beginning of the transition (because there isn't much) but I'd bet we're getting close.
 

jwyke

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
45
Location
Norman, OK
#49
"Getting close...."

I sure hope so, Peter! I don't know if it's just my radio or not, but some of their radio traffic has really sounded BAD for the last couple months. It comes and goes.....
 

n5bew1

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
712
Location
norman, ok
#50
Jeff I think it has been sounding bad longer than that with receivers not hearing well constant rhythmic popping sounds on top of weak handheld transmissions plus the periodic complete dropping of transmissions when users close to the east tower try to talk. I sure hope my brain can figure out how to program a Harris system.
 

jwyke

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
45
Location
Norman, OK
#51
Good, Ken... glad I'm not the only one having issues! The system programming is pretty straight-forward, but not sure what scanner you have....
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
1,660
Location
O-o-o-o-o-o-o-klahoma
#52
I forget which one, but one of the Site 40 transmitters has been bad for years at this point. Whenever a talkgroup gets assigned to that transmitter, it sounds like poop. But why fix it when you can buy new?
 

n5bew1

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
712
Location
norman, ok
#53
Good, Ken... glad I'm not the only one having issues! The system programming is pretty straight-forward, but not sure what scanner you have....
I will need to buy a new scanner that does P25 type 2. I haven't begun looking at scanners yet. I have a Uniden 796d now.
 

milton1991

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
19
Location
Norman, OK
#54
The tower out in East Norman is not being kind to Station 5 this evening. The only radio actually able to get out is on Engine 5's rig. The rest are either garbled or the system cuts them off after 5 seconds. (The cutting off thing happens all the time, but the system is being more mean than usual tonight.) Hopefully, this new system of theirs will fix that issue for good.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
1,660
Location
O-o-o-o-o-o-o-klahoma
#55
The tower out in East Norman is not being kind to Station 5 this evening. The only radio actually able to get out is on Engine 5's rig. The rest are either garbled or the system cuts them off after 5 seconds. (The cutting off thing happens all the time, but the system is being more mean than usual tonight.) Hopefully, this new system of theirs will fix that issue for good.
In fairness, the old system would work fine, too, if the city bothered to maintain it. Instead, they seem more likely to allow things to fall apart, then buy new when it does.

The other thing they can do, since site 40 is not heavily loaded, is configure the system to not assign talkgroups to the bad transmitter. They don't seem to want to do that, either. I suppose that helps justify the 8-digit spend on the new system.


Let me also add that I thought the old RR forum system worked just fine for the last 15 years and I don't see the new version as an improvement ...
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
1,660
Location
O-o-o-o-o-o-o-klahoma
#56
More testing lately. Even hearing traffic that sounds like it might be relayed from one of Norman's OKWIN groups. 64001 is the TG of the day.

Reviewing the traffic tidbits (thanks, UPMan) on my 436, it's def city traffic. I wouldn't say this was the beginning of the transition (because there isn't much) but I'd bet we're getting close.
They're doing more of this today. Sounds like maybe they are using "real" traffic to set audio levels? Usually only lasts a few minutes at a time and always on 64001.
 

milton1991

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
19
Location
Norman, OK
#57
Anyone have the project guidelines or contract for the new radio system by chance? I figured it might be on the city's website, but that thing is worse than a library when trying to find something. Specifically, I'm curious about the level of encryption they plan on introducing with the new system.
 

jwyke

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
45
Location
Norman, OK
#58
Anyone have the project guidelines or contract for the new radio system by chance? I figured it might be on the city's website, but that thing is worse than a library when trying to find something. Specifically, I'm curious about the level of encryption they plan on introducing with the new system.
I read the project guidelines quite some time ago, and I saw nothing about encryption. Now, let's keep in mind... this is Norman, OK... and NOTHING ever ends up the way it was "planned." This project is about 4-5 years old (at least), so I would venture to say there have been MANY changes... none of which I have any knowledge about. Let's hope Peter weighs in on this. He probably has more details (?) I'm beginning to wonder if the system is ever going to go 'live.' It's not a simple ordeal....
 

milton1991

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 20, 2011
Messages
19
Location
Norman, OK
#59
I found an RFP that did mention the system must be capable of operating in both clear air and encrypted modes, but as you said, that was a while back (2016). I believe the system is scheduled to go live in April or May, but that was the timeline from about June of last year. Norman is actually one of the more 'open' systems compared to several other college towns that have gone encrypted. Logically I can't understand why they would go full-on encrypted considering how many times mutual aid is given/received (Moore PD was just in town the other week with their drone doing a search). I'm hoping they don't switch over to the new system until the summer months. Doing it is spring is just asking for our much-overdue tornado outbreak to visit the region.
 

jwyke

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
45
Location
Norman, OK
#60
They're doing more of this today. Sounds like maybe they are using "real" traffic to set audio levels? Usually only lasts a few minutes at a time and always on 64001.
Heard a fair amount of NPD traffic on TG 63001 (yes, 63001) this morning. Not encrypted, but audio level too high... almost unintelligible. So we wait..........
 
Top