Northern Lights Casino Radios.

[richster]

First I would like to thank Mark2117 for doing some investigating into what radios the Northern Lights Casino were using. He has found that they are using Motorola TR3000's.

These radios are basically unmonitorable. They are in the 1.9GHz (UPCS band) and are digitally encrypted using TDMA encryption.

UPCS stands for the "unlicenced personal communication service". Encrypted communications for a casino?? Regina's uses a regular LTR.

This is kinda scary as well. Digital encryption readily available to everyone for personal use, apparently you don't need a licence, and it's affordable. Maybe the day will come where most comms will become unmonitorable and scanners will become obsolete.

Does anyone know more about this system? Does anyone know any other agencies using this band?

Regards,
Richster.

 

[DaveH]

This is a Motorola system called "Telario". Check their website for more details. I looked at the technical specs several years ago. It is basically an low-power in-building system that combines telephone with two-way radio, sort of like iDEN. The handset power is low (33mW) so not much range. They may be encrypted but in any case don't confuse digital modulation with "encyption".

Systems like this have been around for years. The CT2+ standard (used for Companion phones sold by Nortel) is time-division-duplex, a digital ping-pong arrangement using single frequencies in the 944-952MHz band (and possibly 1.9GHz, haven't kept up on everything...). Canadian Tire and other retailers use this system. It is completely digital and low power (10mW handsets).

Dave

 

[boomboy64]

Just to clarify something, TDMA isn't encryption, it is just a method getting more users onto a carrier. Simple explanation is that a bunch of users each get allocated a short timeslot and if you repeat the cycle fast enough, and the receiver is also synchronized to that timeslot, Bob's your uncle and the two can talk. As such, the same frequency can carry many conversations at once. A lot of cellphone systems use this and what the casino is doing is no more complicated than using the new push-to-talk cellphones for internal business.

Yes it sucks, but no, it isn't encryption. Theoretically, someone who builds an appropriate scanner could scan these. There just hasn't been the combination of expired patents/licensing and realistic business case for anyone to get into that segment of the scanner market yet. :x

Boomboy64

 

[DaveH]

Just noticed that Motorola's website says it is a "cancelled" product, with support out to 2009.

http://www.motorola.com/telario/

Maybe it's due to overlap with iDEN products/services (Nextel and Telus).

Dave

 

[richster]

DaveH Wrote:

This is a Motorola system called "Telario". Check their website for more details. I looked at the technical specs several years ago. It is basically an low-power in-building system that combines telephone with two-way radio, sort of like iDEN. The handset power is low (33mW) so not much range. They may be encrypted but in any case don't confuse digital modulation with "encyption".

Hi Dave, I did my research thoroughly on this radio before opening my yap this time...LOL :lol: . I am not confused. This radio specifically uses TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access) in it's transmissions.

Here is a link to the user manual, and check out page 35.

http://www.motorola.com/cgiss/docs/TR3000UserGuide.pdf

Here is another link with it's specifications, and confirmation it uses TDMA.

http://telario.psicompany.com/telario/tc3000/telariospec.pdf

Thanks for the input Dave, yes I knew they only used 33mW, which didn't really surprise me bacause the casino is a fairly small place anyways.

About the encryption issue, the reason why I labelled TDMA as encryption is because I was reading several papers on it and it's advantages and downfalls, plus it's comparison to it's cousin CDMA. In various instances it coupled the word encrypton with both TDMA and CDMA. The cellular industry uses these technologies and like tagging the word encryption with TDMA and CDMA to make them sound more secure.

I agree with boomboy64 about it not being encryption. I was reading on how TDMA was able to effectively send as many as six transmissions on a single frequency. To me that just sounded like a more efficient way of communication rather that encryption.

Here is an excellent page I found thoroughly explaning TDMA without using the encryption word.

http://www.iec.org/online/tutorials/tdma/

Regards,
Richster.

 

[mark2117]

Would todays scanners be able to follow a frequency that lets 6 conversations at the same time? The whole concept of that is really mind boggling :shock:

 

[richster]

Would todays scanners be able to follow a frequency that lets 6 conversations at the same time? The whole concept of that is really mind boggling :shock:

There will probably never be a scanner made that will follow these digital modes. The reason being is that CDMA and TDMA are used by the cellular phone giants, and it is illegal (in the states) to make a device to receive cellular phone calls. Plus if there ever was one made, I'm sure the cellular giants wouldn't take it laying down (law suites and other court actions would follow). Too much trouble for what it's worth.

Plus the cellular giants have labelled these digital modulation schemes as a form of encryption, when in fact it isn't. I would imagine they did this to prevent scanner manufacturers from making radios that would pick up TDMA and CDMA, because eventhough we can legally listen to the digital cellular band, it is illegal for us to decode an "encrypted" digital signal. So that counts us out too.

Software is the only route I can think of. Some genius backyard programmer possibly might make a program to convert these signals back to analog in the future using the discriminator tap from a scanner. But I wouldn't hold yer breath.

Regards,
Richster.

 

[mark2117]

So if someone decided to call their analog frequency "encrypted" even though it wasn't, we couldn't "legally" listen to it because its declared as encrypted?

 

[boomboy64]

No, just calling it encrypted doesn't mean squat. Listening in to the 'noise' is entirely legal. Decrypting the encrypted signal is what is illegal. We had a police supervisor out on the east coast who went snake when he found out that we (the local HAM club) were listening to his digital trunked comms. We went to great, and somewhat unsuccessful, lengths to explain the difference between digital modulation and encryption, but he still was trying to shut us down and threatening us with arrest for 'decrypting' the signal. :roll:

We just ignored him from then on...

Boomboy64