NXDN in NC

[mtindor]

Ok - heard 1-2 calls on SC Fleettalk on the 436 but it missed like 2-3 others in the same group of calls heard on the TRX.

I am unsure why that would be. It sounds like you've made at least some progress though. I'm not going to suggest that you modify any of the digital settings, simply because thus far I haven't had to change a thing and seem to be tracking the local NXDN system and a couple of our local DPW conventional frequencies just fine. I do know that others have stated that they get better results if they switch from FM to NFM or vice versa, and if they set the digital stuff to Manual 8 and things like that.

I suppose you could play around with that, but just based upon my experience I don't think you should have to.

Mike

 

[troymail]

I am unsure why that would be. It sounds like you've made at least some progress though. I'm not going to suggest that you modify any of the digital settings, simply because thus far I haven't had to change a thing and seem to be tracking the local NXDN system and a couple of our local DPW conventional frequencies just fine. I do know that others have stated that they get better results if they switch from FM to NFM or vice versa, and if they set the digital stuff to Manual 8 and things like that.

I suppose you could play around with that, but just based upon my experience I don't think you should have to.

Mike

Yup - briefly saw a note about changing NFM/FM -- I'm going to ride this a bit as-is before trying any tweaks...

Tomorrow ('s drive) will be much different as the system site(s) are much more active. Just want to get something working fairly well before that trip.

 

[mtindor]

I get the LCN issue -- I'll be dealing with that on a short drive tomorrow (probably) on a nearby county system where the LCNs are all still 0 in the database.

Some progress being seen - thanks.

Good. You are welcome. Complete copy of all is what I'd like to hear though. Hopefully you will be able to figure out why you are missing conversations.

If you never have used the LCN Finder before (and I hadn't, before NXDN), I think it works pretty darned well. Of course, it only works if there is activity on all of the frequencies programmed in. If you don't monitor with LCN Finder long enough for all of the channels to become active, LCN Finder will say it did not complete and will just say something like "3/7 LCNs found". But if you then FUNC-SYS and save what it did find, it'll save at least that info.

In many cases, in the DB, frequencies may be listed right off a license without confirmation that the frequencies are actually in use. In that case you could enter in a system with no LCNs, run LCN Finder and it wouldn't complete simply because some of the frequencies aren't actively part of the system. So just be aware of that.

I already knew the LCNs for the local trunked system here, but I did add the system manually with no LCN info and ran LCN Finder -- and the LCN Finder did find all of the LCNs in my case, once enough traffic took place for activity to occur on all of the frequencies.

Good luck with the process!

Mike

 

[mtindor]

Ok - heard 1-2 calls on SC Fleettalk on the 436 but it missed like 2-3 others in the same group of calls heard on the TRX.

One more thing -- I see in the database that the Supply site license is expired, but that it has many more frequencies on the license. They may or may not be used [and you may already know if they are or not]. I just wanted to mention that you might want to put all of those frequencies in the Supply site and run LCN Finder if you can let it set during the day. Maybe it'll find some of those other frequencies active and give you LCN info for them so that you can get the DB updated. Or maybe there is only one frequency in use on the site and the effort will be for nothing. Just a suggestion !

Mike

 

[troymail]

One more thing -- I see in the database that the Supply site license is expired, but that it has many more frequencies on the license. They may or may not be used [and you may already know if they are or not]. I just wanted to mention that you might want to put all of those frequencies in the Supply site and run LCN Finder if you can let it set during the day. Maybe it'll find some of those other frequencies active and give you LCN info for them so that you can get the DB updated. Or maybe there is only one frequency in use on the site and the effort will be for nothing. Just a suggestion !

Mike

Yup - monitored all for some time now... it's a weird site (in lots of ways) and I've never see anything on any of the other frequencies....

 

[troymail]

Watching Brunswick Transit on DSD+, it now looks like there is occasional (potentially) data bursts - I'm guessing this is what the 436 was stopping on when programmed as a One Frequency system... In conventional mode, the radio ignores it....

Just gotta know which mode to program things.... lots of room for errors in programming.

 

[troymail]

Watching SC Fleettalk on 2 TRX's and the 436 this morning... saw at least one voice call on all radios earlier this morning but just had a series of calls seen on both TRX-1's and nothing heard at all on the 436....

 

[troymail]

Took a drive to Columbus County to check out NXDN on the 436... Drove north through the Nakina site and then spent time parked in Whiteville for a bit - not far from that tower. Worked fairly well (but I was stationary and fairly near to the tower) - the TRX was working pretty well also. Drove away towards Waccamaw and then south on Hallsboro Rd ... reception on both radios during that part of the trip was hit and miss...

Monitored Nakina, Whiteville, and Waccamaw on DSD+ and ran LCN finder for the three sites....

 

[theoldcop]

Thank you for your continued and expert investigation into this!!

Took a drive to Columbus County to check out NXDN on the 436... Drove north through the Nakina site and then spent time parked in Whiteville for a bit - not far from that tower. Worked fairly well (but I was stationary and fairly near to the tower) - the TRX was working pretty well also. Drove away towards Waccamaw and then south on Hallsboro Rd ... reception on both radios during that part of the trip was hit and miss...

Monitored Nakina, Whiteville, and Waccamaw on DSD+ and ran LCN finder for the three sites....

 

[mtindor]

Watching SC Fleettalk on 2 TRX's and the 436 this morning... saw at least one voice call on all radios earlier this morning but just had a series of calls seen on both TRX-1's and nothing heard at all on the 436....

Those calls that you saw on the TRX-1 but not on the 436, were they group calls or could they have been private calls? Actually, it shouldn't matter. I think with ID Search On it should play all group and private calls. Could be wrong though. I've never seen a private call on the local NXDN system.

What you're experiencing is really strange, and could be a trunking issue. I only have one NXDN system here (NEXEDGE96) to compare to, and it has worked fine for me thus far.

I was really hoping to convince you that the Uniden is working great hah. But, I can't do that if it isn't working great for you.

mike

 

[troymail]

Those calls that you saw on the TRX-1 but not on the 436, were they group calls or could they have been private calls? Actually, it shouldn't matter. I think with ID Search On it should play all group and private calls. Could be wrong though. I've never seen a private call on the local NXDN system.

No. They are active talkgroups.

What you're experiencing is really strange, and could be a trunking issue. I only have one NXDN system here (NEXEDGE96) to compare to, and it has worked fine for me thus far.

I was really hoping to convince you that the Uniden is working great hah. But, I can't do that if it isn't working great for you.

mike

It worked pretty well on the Columbus County Whiteville site. To be honest, I was a little surprised that while stationary the TRX was working pretty well also for that 7 channel site but it was the first time I've been out that way since some Whistler firmware updates that I believe included a few NXDN improvements. However, as I mentioned, I was stationary and not far from the tower.

That particular system has a pretty checked history since it's implementation. It was ugly for a while from what I recall. I can't really say if it is a scanning issue or it is just the system while mobile.

The hit and miss with the conventional channel and SC Fleettalk (at home/stationary) is a bit puzzling - both (including the Fleettalk site) are single channels.... maybe the battery door foil needs replaced..... :roll:

 

[mtindor]

The hit and miss with the conventional channel and SC Fleettalk (at home/stationary) is a bit puzzling - both (including the Fleettalk site) are single channels.... maybe the battery door foil needs replaced..... :roll:

Now there is one I can't argue with you about, the ole batter door. That plagues a lot of us, myself included. I still have the foil in mine though, and it seems to do a pretty good job.

Glad you're making progress across the board though. . I'm sure the Columbus area people using Unidens will be glad that you figured out the LCNs. I noticed at leastsome of those sites do not have LCNs set, and obviously Uniden scanners aren't going to be able to pick those sites up. Nice job on the sleuthing!

Mike

 

[troymail]

Now there is one I can't argue with you about, the ole batter door. That plagues a lot of us, myself included. I still have the foil in mine though, and it seems to do a pretty good job.

Glad you're making progress across the board though. . I'm sure the Columbus area people using Unidens will be glad that you figured out the LCNs. I noticed at leastsome of those sites do not have LCNs set, and obviously Uniden scanners aren't going to be able to pick those sites up. Nice job on the sleuthing!

Mike

The LCNs - at least for Columbus County - appear to follow a solid pattern. I created a spreadsheet to "guess" the LCNs for the three sites I didn't visit today....

 

[mtindor]

The LCNs - at least for Columbus County - appear to follow a solid pattern. I created a spreadsheet to "guess" the LCNs for the three sites I didn't visit today....

Good deal. It's always nice when you can figure out the enigmatic way that some assign LCNs on NXDN.

On some systems, they are totally arbitrary it seems. On others (like some UHF ones I've seen), the follow a standard UHF bandplan (which is then easy to figure out).

Mike

 

[AlphaFive]

WQTT568 Mills River F.D.

What would be a best guess as to the reason for the following;
Mills River F.D. WQTT568. The license has a 20 frequency listing, initial LCN finder runs on the system found LCN's for 150.8825 at #26, 152.2625 at #27, 153.4475 at #28, and 153.5225 at #29. I would have to guess planning for the future, but what becomes of the holes below #26. I just don't know about this one...

 

[troymail]

What would be a best guess as to the reason for the following;
Mills River F.D. WQTT568. The license has a 20 frequency listing, initial LCN finder runs on the system found LCN's for 150.8825 at #26, 152.2625 at #27, 153.4475 at #28, and 153.5225 at #29. I would have to guess planning for the future, but what becomes of the holes below #26. I just don't know about this one...

The LCNs are simply a "value" assigned for a lookup table of frequencies. As Mike said earlier, these numbers can be anything they want to use as it only has to mean something to the radios programmed for on/in the closed system.

That license appears to have two sites - Hendersonville and Mills River - each of which has it's own set of 5 repeater frequencies. The others are probably input or direct (MObile) frequencies that can be used and wouldn't be part of the site (directly).

Based on your comment above, it would appear - assuming the LCN finder ran long enough and there was enough activity on the Mills River site - that they are only using 4 of the 5 licensed frequencies.

Note: I found that on one site in Columbus County yesterday also - one documented frequency just never appeared and the LCN finder never "finished". The other two sites where the LCNs for all documented frequencies were found fairly quickly and the LCN finder "finished").

As another example, the SC Fleettalk site near me only uses a single frequency and the LCN for it is 713. It may mean something in some generic table somewhere or it might only mean something to the folks who built out and manage the system. The important thing is that when the controller/control channel says "voice call is assigned to channel 713", the system and radios know that means 463.9 Mhz.

 

[AlphaFive]

Mills River

Excellent, thanks for the info....

 

[troymail]

Another possibility for that "extra" frequency.... there is a DMR licensee in my area that has a CAP+ system but also uses one of their licensed frequencies as conventional (sort of - it is DMR but it isn't part of the CAP+ system).

You may want to try programming that extra frequency as conventional - maybe start as analog - just to see if there is any activity - voice, data/digital noise, etc. there.

 

[AlphaFive]

Mills River

I'll give it shot..

 

[AlphaFive]

Mills River WQTT568

Another possibility for that "extra" frequency.... there is a DMR licensee in my area that has a CAP+ system but also uses one of their licensed frequencies as conventional (sort of - it is DMR but it isn't part of the CAP+ system).

You may want to try programming that extra frequency as conventional - maybe start as analog - just to see if there is any activity - voice, data/digital noise, etc. there.

I think you hit this one correctly, utilizing site 001 (Mills River), The first four base freqs., 150.8825 #26, 152.2625 #27, 153.4475 #28, 153.5225 #29, shows hits relatively quickly with information on the NXDN site and so on.. the last one 154.5550, which never had an LCN hit, is at this point silent. I am using the custom search Quick Search hold for the frequency. Thanks for the help.