coolrich55
Member
Read a story a while back that they are looking into going to the European style sound. More about it was in the news today. A vote may be coming soon. I don't live in the city but am not a fan of the change.
NYC emergency vehicle sirens
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6079smithw
Member
I read that mulch this morning. A siren is designed to be used as a warning device... it's supposed to get people's attention, not be pleasing to their ears.
(Cuomo and DiBlasio's nasal whining are, IMHO, waaaaaay more annoying than any siren ever made.)
(Cuomo and DiBlasio's nasal whining are, IMHO, waaaaaay more annoying than any siren ever made.)
coolrich55
Member
The way it is now with the different types for different vehicles you can tell whats coming. Be it fd, pd ect. To me if they all sounded the same, would be annoying.
Bob1955
Member
Basically it boils down to this, Whelen is the industry leader now in emergency vehicle lighting. I would say that Federal Signal Corp is 2nd. My son is a LEO down South. You have the (3) basic tones: Wail/Yelp/Pierce/Air Horn and then rumbler is like a deep bass sound of the sirens and that speaker is mounted underneath the wheel well. Sirens can also be programed for a fast wait, slow wail, faster yelp, ect. Federal Touch Deluxe is a real expensive unit as when the cop/firefighter hit the rocker switch on to" sweep", it does all the tones by its self meaning wail, yelp, and their version of hi-lo so the operator doesn't have to hit the horn or touch the buttons to change the tones. My son prefers changing the sounds by hand. You can also have 100 watt sirens and 200 and even some emit two sounds at once. Just look on YouTube. I hate European sirens. One of the most popular sirens had been the Federal PA-200 but now, they have lost a lot of market share. The Federal Q siren(motor) is still used on a of fire trucks. It has a motor and brake system . Hope this helps everyone all members.
the Euro hi/lo siren is a joke. cars already don't move with the rumbler siren etc. These self-pretentious Manhattan residents are the people up in arms, noise pollution is inevitable in the city. You want to hear the birds chirp in the morning, then they should've moved to the suburbs.
The EU sirens have long been known to be more effective. But they were shot down a long time ago when a large number of the voters were also WW2 survivors and that hi-lo sound meant the Gestapo were coming. A totally valid but emotional choice, not one based on what can be heard.
It really wouldn't matter in NYC though. I nearly front-ended a cop car one day, after I made a left, through a green light on a 4-lane road, and found a totally silent cop car coming RIGHT AT ME, AGAINST TRAFFIC. No lights, no siren, he just picked an empty road--right before an intersection.
Everyone complains about sirens, so despite state law requiring the use of lights and sirens for ALL vehicles in emergency operations (unless they have been dispatched on silent response)...the NYPD does not use sirens properly, they violate all the safety standards because voters keep complaining and politicians keep calling the mayor, who calls the commissioner, who calls the precincts and say "Tone it down".
The only thing you can count on is the FDNY making good use of their buffalo horns, bless 'em.
NYPD are notoriously poor drivers and even worse at gun discipline, by national standards. But who else has 40,000 police officers to try training?
It really wouldn't matter in NYC though. I nearly front-ended a cop car one day, after I made a left, through a green light on a 4-lane road, and found a totally silent cop car coming RIGHT AT ME, AGAINST TRAFFIC. No lights, no siren, he just picked an empty road--right before an intersection.
Everyone complains about sirens, so despite state law requiring the use of lights and sirens for ALL vehicles in emergency operations (unless they have been dispatched on silent response)...the NYPD does not use sirens properly, they violate all the safety standards because voters keep complaining and politicians keep calling the mayor, who calls the commissioner, who calls the precincts and say "Tone it down".
The only thing you can count on is the FDNY making good use of their buffalo horns, bless 'em.
NYPD are notoriously poor drivers and even worse at gun discipline, by national standards. But who else has 40,000 police officers to try training?
New York State law DOES NOT require police vehicles to use sirens in emergency response. NYS VTL 1104 states:
Except for an authorized emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle or bicycle, the exemptions herein granted to an authorized emergency vehicle shall apply only when audible signals are sounded from any said vehicle while in motion by bell, horn, siren, electronic device or exhaust whistle as may be reasonably necessary.
That is not the same thing as what was posted. And nice dig at NYPD too.
Bob1955
Member
Rred, Your information is totally false. I just was out with my son who's a LEO Down South and his life-time friend is a NYPD LEO. When he saw this, all (5) of us laughed while at the diner. LEO's don't need to have their sirens going on a code 3 run. Where did you get your information from? You try driving around the city trying to go on a call, better yet, look at YouTube and see it that way!
W8RMH
Feed Provider Since 2012
The current sirens work fine, just turn it on and leave it on until you get there. To much playing with it, changing modes, and just tapping it while approaching an intersection. The wail is designed to cover a wide range of audio levels and is better heard by motorists with different hearing levels and vehicle construction and window conditions. Same with the "Q" siren. Let it rise and fall, don't just hold it down at full speed.
I hope your "down South" son isn't in Georgia. Any Emergency vehicle running "code" shall be "seen and heard" by Georgia law.
Also, the "Rumbler" is not a specific tone, if it is equipped, it is connected in tandem with the siren output, regardless if it is wail, yelp, phaser, or hi-lo.
And many studies, plus personal experience, show that "hi-lo" is actually the most effective tone to move traffic.
krokus
Member
Every study I have seen referenced said that the only thing less effective than hi-lo is the Euro siren sound. Those studies said that wail was the best electronic siren sound. (Mechanical sirens being best, but not everyone can have those.)
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Bob1955
Member
3083754, He's "down South" in Georgia(have a problem with that/cops?) and happens to be a very good driver. For your INFORMATION, all LEO's have to take a EVOC course. Do you or anyone know what that stands for in this group?(Emergency Vehicle Operating Course) He does NOT blow through red lights either without coming to a COMPLETE stop, then looking ALL around him before gunning it. His area is rough. I will NOT tell this group what city it is. Not you per say, 65643, you all have to GROW up. LEO's for the MOST part are good. Are their a few bad apples, yes. Obey the law and you have ZERO to worry about! You need to watch "COPS" and or "Live-PD".
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Bob-
The state laws apparently have changed. I learned them quite a while ago, from the troop safety officer of a NYSP barracks, who was giving emergency driving training to a new ambulance corp. At that time--and for many years afterward--the state law was "Lights and siren, code 3, or drive like everybody else". And at that time, the NYSP had a very simple policy about red light use as well. Abuse it for a donut run, you get a week of unpaid leave. Abuse it a second time, you got a month of unpaid leave. Abuse it for a third time, and you were an EXtrooper.
Their standards were usually higher than any other NYS law enforcement agency, including the NYPD. I've known some good cops, but also, too many sloppy bullies who signed up for the wrong reasons. And were shielded by The Blue Wall all too often. It isn't an easy job, but abiding by standards is a part of it.
Ever hear a siren start whooping JUST as a car comes to an intersection? They're plain stupid. If you don't start the siren up at least a couple of seconds in advance...how the hell is anyone supposed to know where it is echoing from? But if you run with the siren, the safe way, then Community Affairs grouses. (Hey, sometimes, someone needs to tell Community Affairs "TFB".)
The state laws apparently have changed. I learned them quite a while ago, from the troop safety officer of a NYSP barracks, who was giving emergency driving training to a new ambulance corp. At that time--and for many years afterward--the state law was "Lights and siren, code 3, or drive like everybody else". And at that time, the NYSP had a very simple policy about red light use as well. Abuse it for a donut run, you get a week of unpaid leave. Abuse it a second time, you got a month of unpaid leave. Abuse it for a third time, and you were an EXtrooper.
Their standards were usually higher than any other NYS law enforcement agency, including the NYPD. I've known some good cops, but also, too many sloppy bullies who signed up for the wrong reasons. And were shielded by The Blue Wall all too often. It isn't an easy job, but abiding by standards is a part of it.
Ever hear a siren start whooping JUST as a car comes to an intersection? They're plain stupid. If you don't start the siren up at least a couple of seconds in advance...how the hell is anyone supposed to know where it is echoing from? But if you run with the siren, the safe way, then Community Affairs grouses. (Hey, sometimes, someone needs to tell Community Affairs "TFB".)
*Ahem.... I have taken advanced EVOC in Forsyth years ago. ("Operations" - not "Operating") And I know the law in Georgia very well. Again, as I stated (and you incorrectly denied) In Georgia, if any emergency vehicle is running "code" (IE, 10-18, or using lights, to get somewhere fast) then that vehicle "Shall be seen and heard" There is no legal "code 2" response (IE; lights only)
There is no requirement for coming to a "full stop" at an intersection while "running code" if it can be verified there are no conflicting movements in advance.
Possibly a class on the liabilities of your actions, and proper usage of emergency equipment should serve y'all well, before your "keyboard Rambo" alter-ego kicks back in...
...Good day!
Bob1955
Member
That is a "STANDARD" fire truck siren AND you need a brake pedal to stop it too. How in the world could this be mounted inside the engine of a police cruiser?? Please answer this question for me.
Back in the day, that's all they had.
Under the hood, and externally mounted. However with everything being ever-so-tightly encompassed these days, a full "Q" would be quite difficult to mount on/in an average car, pickup, or SUV.
Don't worry, guys. As self-driving cars deploy, the new cars will be trained to recognize the 5G broadcasts from emergency vehicles, running without sirens or lights or not, and automatically run themselves up on the sidewalk (which is legal and proper when necessary to clear a lane) to get out of the way. All by themselves. And of course, they'll know when a bad apple is out of sight, around the corner, coming silently the wrong way against traffic as well.
This will also give the city an excuse to deploy an all-new traffic light/sensor program, where every traffic light will be replaced with a "smart" one, interfaced back to DOT, and automatically throw red and green lights to ensure the fastest passage.
Of course, your grandkids will ask "What's a traffic light?" because once the dangerous old cars are banned from Manhattan and only the autonomous cars are allowed, there'll be no need to have traffic lights anyway. They just distract from the xmas lights.
And guess who's gonna get the bill to pay for all that. Actually, the bill for about 4x the actual cost, because instead of putting money aside for it now, they're going to pay for it with a BOND issue. And that usually triples or quadruples the cost to the taxpayers, with the rest going to the bankers and bondholders.
"Resistance is futile".
This will also give the city an excuse to deploy an all-new traffic light/sensor program, where every traffic light will be replaced with a "smart" one, interfaced back to DOT, and automatically throw red and green lights to ensure the fastest passage.
Of course, your grandkids will ask "What's a traffic light?" because once the dangerous old cars are banned from Manhattan and only the autonomous cars are allowed, there'll be no need to have traffic lights anyway. They just distract from the xmas lights.
And guess who's gonna get the bill to pay for all that. Actually, the bill for about 4x the actual cost, because instead of putting money aside for it now, they're going to pay for it with a BOND issue. And that usually triples or quadruples the cost to the taxpayers, with the rest going to the bankers and bondholders.
"Resistance is futile".
Actually, a lot of the complainers are the ones who moved there from the midwest, PennsytuckyWisconSota. They also complained about too much noise from bars when they took an apartment right over one. Zero sympathy. And the way people play music in their cars, and I'm guilty of it, the hi lo crap ain't going to cut it.
A "brake pedal" to stop it? What the holy heck are you talking about? The Q2B has an integrated brake that is operated by a switch supplying 12v...not a "brake pedal". You seem to be confused by the fact that many fire apparatus have a foot pedal to operate the siren in a hands-free manner; it's not a brake, and there's no need to even use the brake, simply let the rotor coast to a stop on its own.
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