NYC FDNY EMS Radio Quality

[DrLoomis1978]

Hello, DrLoomis here again with another question that I know you guys can help me with. I'm a NYS EMT but I don't work as one so I'm confused about something. About 25 years ago while living in Brooklyn, I would listen to the EMS dispatch and then FDNY took over but the reception was horrible, barely able to get a clear transmission. Meanwhile firefighter FDNY dispatch was clear as a bell as was the NYPD. 20 years ago I moved to Staten Island and once again FDNY EMS (SI of course) was terrible and still is today. The question is why, when everything else is perfect? You guys have helped me in the past many times so I thank you in advance

 

[sefrischling]

25 years ago NYC*EMS was UHF R2, then partially switched to 800 trunked, which was horrible. At this period in time FDNY was VHF, with an entirely different radio system.

Presently FDNY*EMS and FDNY Fire are both UHF R2 and again two entirely different radio systems. The EMS system more closely matches the NYPD system , but is entirely different.

When I am down in New York, I have no issues listening to EMS, so I am not sure what issue you're speaking of. They sound fine when monitored in The Bronx, Queens, Manhattan and Southwestern Nassau.

 

[Danny37]

The EMS system is built really well. I have no issues listening to all the frequencies despite where I am, even when I'm in jersey city. However it being Staten Island, there's always been an issue with RF in Staten Island due to the terrain.

 

[DrLoomis1978]

Reply to sefrischling

25 years ago NYC*EMS was UHF R2, then partially switched to 800 trunked, which was horrible. At this period in time FDNY was VHF, with an entirely different radio system.

Presently FDNY*EMS and FDNY Fire are both UHF R2 and again two entirely different radio systems. The EMS system more closely matches the NYPD system , but is entirely different.

When I am down in New York, I have no issues listening to EMS, so I am not sure what issue you're speaking of. They sound fine when monitored in The Bronx, Queens, Manhattan and Southwestern Nassau.

Okay, well I understand now that they are different systems but I should have mentioned, listening to Manhattan N, C, & S are very clear, but when living in Brooklyn, Brooklyn EMS had too much static and sounded as if it were a distant channel. Now living in Staten Island, SI EMS has the same distant sound. I can't speak for Queens or the Bronx. I just can't figure out why Brooklyn and SI should sound distant and Manhattan sound perfect. I wish I had an XTS series radio to try it on because I've seen EMS using the XTS and obviously they hear each other..

 

[DrLoomis1978]

Reply to Danny37

The EMS system is built really well. I have no issues listening to all the frequencies despite where I am, even when I'm in jersey city. However it being Staten Island, there's always been an issue with RF in Staten Island due to the terrain.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of equipment are you using because I've used a few different types of portables and both Brooklyn and Staten Island have given me trouble. Manhattan is perfectly clear. I'm even able to hear Manhattan here in SI. So, I'm very confused.

 

[Danny37]

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of equipment are you using because I've used a few different types of portables and both Brooklyn and Staten Island have given me trouble. Manhattan is perfectly clear. I'm even able to hear Manhattan here in SI. So, I'm very confused.

It could be just that you're in a bad spot, my bathroom and kitchen is a really spotty location. However, the rest of my apartment is fine. I used a numerous amount Motorola and vertex radios and they all work fine. I travel frequently from Manhattan, queens and Brooklyn daily and don't ever have an issue. Even out to Valley Stream, LI on some weekends and I can recieve just about anything there.

 

[Citywide173]

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of equipment are you using because I've used a few different types of portables and both Brooklyn and Staten Island have given me trouble. Manhattan is perfectly clear. I'm even able to hear Manhattan here in SI. So, I'm very confused.

I think a more accurate answer could be given if you told us what you have used to try monitoring. When you mention the word "distant" it makes me wonder if you're trying to listen in the wrong mode or possibly with a radio that is not capable of narrow banding compliant monitoring.

 

[GTR8000]

All of the FDNY and EMS T-Band (482-483 MHz) "dispatch" frequencies are simulcast throughout the city. It's entirely possible that you're having some issues with transmitters that are slightly out of phase in your location.

Presently FDNY*EMS and FDNY Fire are both UHF R2 and again two entirely different radio systems. The EMS system more closely matches the NYPD system , but is entirely different.

In fact, the FDNY and EMS transmitters are functionally identical and are simulcast from the same sites throughout the city. The only real factor that differentiates them is operationally, whereby the EMS repeaters are enabled full-time, whereas FDNY operates them in full duplex mode by injecting the voted RX audio into the transmitter output by way of a "mixer" (i.e. manually operating the repeaters).

 

[DrLoomis1978]

Reply to GTR8000

I remember reading about the FDNY using the mixer, which they claim even if you are listening to the dispatch channel you will miss the initial call. You'd have to be very close to the fire fighters themselves and listen to the mobile/portable radio transmissions, similar in a way to a TAC channel. Then you can switch to the dispatch frequency to get the rest of the transmissions. If I'm wrong PLEASE correct me...I'm really trying hard to understand all of this. Also, I still need some clarification about "issues with transmitters that are slightly out of phase in your location." What I'm not understanding is, if they are out of phase wouldn't EMS have the same issue as my scanner?

 

[DrLoomis1978]

Reply to Citywide173

I think a more accurate answer could be given if you told us what you have used to try monitoring. When you mention the word "distant" it makes me wonder if you're trying to listen in the wrong mode or possibly with a radio that is not capable of narrow banding compliant monitoring.

This could be a possibility. Originally, 25 years ago in Brooklyn, I was using a Realistic Radio Shack scanner which received all public safety perfectly except EMS. Then the FDNY took over and everything was still perfect on the fire end, but the EMS was still very hard to get a clear signal. As far as I know narrow banding is something that started fairly recent. I still have that scanner and it still receives the same as it did way back then. Today I use the Baofeng radios (I know, cheap equipment) but everything is clear except EMS, now listening to SI EMS. The Baofengs have the narrow banding option for transmitting but I'm confused about what you said as far as "narrow banding compliant **monitoring**.' I thought narrow banding was only for TX. I'm sorry for the long winded reply but I really want to understand what's been going wrong all these years.

 

[DrLoomis1978]

Reply to Danny37

It could be just that you're in a bad spot, my bathroom and kitchen is a really spotty location. However, the rest of my apartment is fine. I used a numerous amount Motorola and vertex radios and they all work fine. I travel frequently from Manhattan, queens and Brooklyn daily and don't ever have an issue. Even out to Valley Stream, LI on some weekends and I can recieve just about anything there.

See, that's what I'm wondering. You've used Motorola and Vertex, top of the line radios. I've used a Realistic (Radio Shack) scanner and now I'm using Baofeng two way radios which can be used as scanners, but they're cheap pieces of junk. I'm going to try my nephew's Motorola Minitor and see if there's a difference.

 

[Citywide173]

This could be a possibility. Originally, 25 years ago in Brooklyn, I was using a Realistic Radio Shack scanner which received all public safety perfectly except EMS. Then the FDNY took over and everything was still perfect on the fire end, but the EMS was still very hard to get a clear signal. As far as I know narrow banding is something that started fairly recent. I still have that scanner and it still receives the same as it did way back then. Today I use the Baofeng radios (I know, cheap equipment) but everything is clear except EMS, now listening to SI EMS. The Baofengs have the narrow banding option for transmitting but I'm confused about what you said as far as "narrow banding compliant **monitoring**.' I thought narrow banding was only for TX. I'm sorry for the long winded reply but I really want to understand what's been going wrong all these years.

It was specifically your use of the word "distant" that made me ask. While the mandate is for TX, the effect on older receivers is decreased or "distant sounding" audio. The audio is clear, but requires cranking the volume to hear the actual traffic. Have you tried the Baofeng at different physical locations outside the house?

 

[Danny37]

I've seen those cheap Chinese radios work worse then a scanner at times. You can get a decent Motorola/vertex/kenwood UHF t-band radio for under $100 on the used market. There is the hassle of obtaining the software or having someone do it for you but it's definitely worth it imo. Ofcourse programmed for recieve only.

 

[DrLoomis1978]

Reply to Danny37

Yes the Chinese radios do have their issues. For instance, if you're driving the Rx is noisy. It sounds exactly like ignition noise but I've read many times it isn't. If you are standing still or at a red light it's clear. I have looked up the Motorola & Vertex radios and I'd love to buy one but the problem, like you said, is the software. Even if I have someone program it for me, it's still a problem because I also use it to transmit on my job. Also I constantly add and delete frequencies so it's just not practical for me to have someone else do it. So, unfortunately I'm stuck using these cheap toys, as I call them. They kind of serve the purpose but there's nothing like the real thing. You get what you pay for.

 

[DrLoomis1978]

Reply to Citywide173

It was specifically your use of the word "distant" that made me ask. While the mandate is for TX, the effect on older receivers is decreased or "distant sounding" audio. The audio is clear, but requires cranking the volume to hear the actual traffic. Have you tried the Baofeng at different physical locations outside the house?

I replied to this post earlier today but I'm not seeing it on the page so I'll try again. I have tried the Baofeng in many different locations and there is no change. I tried today to listen to the dispatch freq, and the dispatcher was louder than the unit he was calling..."distant" sound and too much static. I tried moving the radio around by tilting it, raising it, waiving it around and it just sounds terrible. Of course tilting it in certain positions makes it sound slightly better but still unacceptable. This radio is new and capable of narrow banding on Tx so I can only assume it should be fine on Rx as well. It sounds good on every channel I listen to except EMS. I'm completely at a loss.

 

[Danny37]

Yes the Chinese radios do have their issues. For instance, if you're driving the Rx is noisy. It sounds exactly like ignition noise but I've read many times it isn't. If you are standing still or at a red light it's clear. I have looked up the Motorola & Vertex radios and I'd love to buy one but the problem, like you said, is the software. Even if I have someone program it for me, it's still a problem because I also use it to transmit on my job. Also I constantly add and delete frequencies so it's just not practical for me to have someone else do it. So, unfortunately I'm stuck using these cheap toys, as I call them. They kind of serve the purpose but there's nothing like the real thing. You get what you pay for.

I was going to tell you to get a good yaesu or kenwood HT but obviously you can't and wouldn't be using ham frequencies for work. I have a yaesu 8dr and it's great for NYC scanning, works better than an analog scanner or those CCR's.

You could get a FPP xts2500 or xts5000 but you're limited to one band and won't be able to program everything you want just by FPP.

 

[DrLoomis1978]

Reply to Danny37

I was going to tell you to get a good yaesu or kenwood HT but obviously you can't and wouldn't be using ham frequencies for work. I have a yaesu 8dr and it's great for NYC scanning, works better than an analog scanner or those CCR's.

You could get a FPP xts2500 or xts5000 but you're limited to one band and won't be able to program everything you want just by FPP.

I'll definitely check out the yaesu 8dr. It's not a huge problem if I can only have the UHF band using an XTS5000 because right now I rarely use VHF. In fact my job uses UHF so it's okay, but I've noticed that even with the UHF band, the XTS model doesn't always cover the the entire freq band span I'm looking for. I know the FPP is limited but if I could get my hands on the right equipment and band span I just might be able to program it. A few months ago I downloaded a bunch of different software for these type radios and I'm almost positive I have the right one. My biggest problem with the XTS is the price. There's a guy on the internet who rehouses them, refurbishes them, and has excellent reviews, but his prices are very steep. Worth it, but steep.

 

[emcomm]

Hello, DrLoomis here again with another question that I know you guys can help me with. I'm a NYS EMT but I don't work as one so I'm confused about something. About 25 years ago while living in Brooklyn, I would listen to the EMS dispatch and then FDNY took over but the reception was horrible, barely able to get a clear transmission. Meanwhile firefighter FDNY dispatch was clear as a bell as was the NYPD. 20 years ago I moved to Staten Island and once again FDNY EMS (SI of course) was terrible and still is today. The question is why, when everything else is perfect? You guys have helped me in the past many times so I thank you in advance

Blacksheep? ...why are the FDNY and the NYPD considered uniformed services, but the city does not recognize EMS as a uniformed service...age old questions...

 

[Citywide173]

Blacksheep? ...why are the FDNY and the NYPD considered uniformed services, but the city does not recognize EMS as a uniformed service...age old questions...

Not like it's a new thing. One of my favorite and rarest challenge coins from NYC*EMS

 

[Danny37]

Not like it's a new thing. One of my favorite and rarest challenge coins from NYC*EMS
View attachment 67336

LOL! I needed a good laugh today, thanks for sharing man.