• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Oakland County, MI (Detroit NW Suburbs) In Negotiations With Motorola

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Warren, Michigan
#23
I heard today that Oakland county has decided they will be a "STAND ALONE" P25 System and will not be a part of MPSCS. Seems really silly to continue to be somewhat of an island away from the rest of the state.
 

iMONITOR

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#24
I heard today that Oakland county has decided they will be a "STAND ALONE" P25 System and will not be a part of MPSCS. Seems really silly to continue to be somewhat of an island away from the rest of the state.
You would have thought they would have gotten rid of the people behind making decisions like that back when they chose OpenSky. Sounds like they're still around. I heard a lot of horror stories from a Fireman I know in Oakland County!
 
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Michigan
#25
Not surprised one bit, the politics in LANSING drive this kind of decision. State wants to control everything. One would have thought the MPSCS would have been smarter than that and negotiated a fair solution, especially since the coverage for other MPSCS users in Oakland county is terrible at best.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
161
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Michigan
#26
The emperor has no clothes in Oakland County. The sharing of technology, common equipment, common programming and experience of neighboring counties should save money and implementation time.

Converting the existing 30+ towers in Oakland County would allow great reception to MPSCS users in the area. State Police in Oakland County don't seem to have much of a problem currently with limited number of MPSCS towers.
 
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Sep 26, 2002
Messages
11
Location
Auburn Hills, MI
#27
Oakland County will be building a 31 site Simulcast Motorola P25 system. 700Mhz band. The county will probably join the state MPSCS system on a limited membership giving the county users including Southfield excellent interop communications. Our Pontiac site is also not an MPSCS site giving the state 3 sites in Oakland County. We will be using the other two Romeo and Holly as part of the new system. Hopefully we will be building around September. right now the county is gearing up for negotiations. The County has requested the full 42 cents 911 Surcharge to assist with this effort.

It's an expensive system, it will be encrypted also. Even the P25 fire paging, utilizing the Unication pagers.
Actually looking forward to working with Motorola on this, I am an old Motorola guy, I liked the old 806 system we had, it worked very well. I won't be here long enough to see it completed or even turned on completely because I am retiring in August of 2011 but the time I will be here it will be neat to see.

So here is some real scoop info and as the news used to say "News at 11"
 

twintip720

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St Clair Shores
#28
Oakland County will be building a 31 site Simulcast Motorola P25 system. 700Mhz band. The county will probably join the state MPSCS system on a limited membership giving the county users including Southfield excellent interop communications. Our Pontiac site is also not an MPSCS site giving the state 3 sites in Oakland County. We will be using the other two Romeo and Holly as part of the new system. Hopefully we will be building around September. right now the county is gearing up for negotiations. The County has requested the full 42 cents 911 Surcharge to assist with this effort.

It's an expensive system, it will be encrypted also. Even the P25 fire paging, utilizing the Unication pagers.
Actually looking forward to working with Motorola on this, I am an old Motorola guy, I liked the old 806 system we had, it worked very well. I won't be here long enough to see it completed or even turned on completely because I am retiring in August of 2011 but the time I will be here it will be neat to see.

So here is some real scoop info and as the news used to say "News at 11"
So all fire comms encrypted?
 
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Messages
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Location
Warren, Michigan
#30
You have to wonder why they want to encrypt everything. What are they hiding? Crime stats? they wouldn't even be spending millions again had they just jointed the MPSCS in the beginning. Really seems to me they love wasting tax money.


Oakland County will be building a 31 site Simulcast Motorola P25 system. 700Mhz band. The county will probably join the state MPSCS system on a limited membership giving the county users including Southfield excellent interop communications. Our Pontiac site is also not an MPSCS site giving the state 3 sites in Oakland County. We will be using the other two Romeo and Holly as part of the new system. Hopefully we will be building around September. right now the county is gearing up for negotiations. The County has requested the full 42 cents 911 Surcharge to assist with this effort.

It's an expensive system, it will be encrypted also. Even the P25 fire paging, utilizing the Unication pagers.
Actually looking forward to working with Motorola on this, I am an old Motorola guy, I liked the old 806 system we had, it worked very well. I won't be here long enough to see it completed or even turned on completely because I am retiring in August of 2011 but the time I will be here it will be neat to see.

So here is some real scoop info and as the news used to say "News at 11"
 

krokus

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Southeastern Michigan
#31
You have to wonder why they want to encrypt everything. What are they hiding? Crime stats?
Most likely, it is nothing that nefarious. If anything, they want to keep crooks from listening, and maybe scanner owners.

QUOTE="fnnm400, post: 3122970, member: 9611"]they wouldn't even be spending millions again had they just jointed the MPSCS in the beginning. Really seems to me they love wasting tax money.[/QUOTE]

Love wasting is a stretch, but will agree with the rest. They are not making the wisest choice, unless they have specific concerns that we are not aware of.

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jz3

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#32
I don't think the county could mandate an agency to use the big "E", although they will certainly encourage it. P25 is an entirely different concept than what they are on now. I have never seen an entire heavily populated county encrypted. How would they handle key management? Interop would still be a nightmare as well!
 

Forts

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#33
According to Google, Oakland County has a population of approx 1.2 million. As an example, if you look at the Greater Toronto Area (Toronto, Peel, York) that's a population base of over 5 million, which each of those municipalities operating separate encrypted P25 trunked systems. They seem to manage ok with interop. From what I understand they have access to each others systems and likely use an interop talkgroup with a key common to all 3 agencies. So it's possible this new system would just have a set of interop groups available with a common key shared to all users.
 

iMONITOR

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MACOMB, MI.
#34
You have to wonder why they want to encrypt everything. What are they hiding?
The way it is now if there is a questionable or suspicious incident we get the counties explanation about what happened, the media's interpretation or spin on what may have happened, and most importantly the scanner monitoring public might find out what really happened! Stop the scanner monitoring public from knowing what really happened, we know we can't trust the news/media to tell the truth, so we just have to accept what the county tells us! Problem solved for them! What they spend on encryption will be made up in avoidable lawsuits due to lack of witnessed evidence of any wrong doing. They currently have MDT's to communicate sensitive information but in a court of law that data can be subpoenaed. My guess is the recorded encrypted communications will be inaccessible under some new 'need to know' or 'inadmissible' laws to protect local government, state's secrets or National Security BS.
1557778197363.png
 

krokus

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#35
According to Google, Oakland County has a population of approx 1.2 million. As an example, if you look at the Greater Toronto Area (Toronto, Peel, York) that's a population base of over 5 million, which each of those municipalities operating separate encrypted P25 trunked systems. They seem to manage ok with interop. From what I understand they have access to each others systems and likely use an interop talkgroup with a key common to all 3 agencies. So it's possible this new system would just have a set of interop groups available with a common key shared to all users.
Part of the issue here, is that all seven counties that surround Oakland operate most public safety comms on MPSCS. Having to use different radios, or go through a reboot process, can be a waste of time, at best.

Sent using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
161
Location
Michigan
#36
Some quick concerns from a resident that has to pay for the new system:

1: The cost to develop and implement a totally new system vs adapting to the MPSCS system which has been done numerous times by the other counties
2: The cost to replace all of the fire pagers when the current paging systems work fine.

The conversion to the MPSCS system will meet all the needs of the county. If the Oakland county was not able to raise taxes (cell phone surcharge) what would they do?

NO NEW TAXES!
 

jz3

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#37
According to Google, Oakland County has a population of approx 1.2 million. As an example, if you look at the Greater Toronto Area (Toronto, Peel, York) that's a population base of over 5 million, which each of those municipalities operating separate encrypted P25 trunked systems. They seem to manage ok with interop. From what I understand they have access to each others systems and likely use an interop talkgroup with a key common to all 3 agencies. So it's possible this new system would just have a set of interop groups available with a common key shared to all users.
There are some 45 municipalities in the county with a few patrolled by MSP and others by the Sheriffs' department. Couple that with a complicated "patch" system like they have now to adjacent agencies is a very risky scenario in the event of a mass response. Shame on Oakland County for putting their personal interests ahead of the public and officer's safety.
 

krokus

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#38
1: The cost to develop and implement a totally new system vs adapting to the MPSCS system which has been done numerous times by the other counties
Also, most of your maintenance costs would be covered by the state, instead of the county.

2: The cost to replace all of the fire pagers when the current paging systems work fine.
As someone who transitioned from VHF analog tone out, to PageGroups on MPSCS, I miss VHF. It was more reliable. Although, the Unication G4 is nice for monitoring radio traffic, more reliably than a scanner, without carrying a portable.

The conversion to the MPSCS system will meet all the needs of the county. If the Oakland county was not able to raise taxes (cell phone surcharge) what would they do?
One big concern, that seems to override all the positives that would come from joining MPSCS, is the county's loss of control over the radio system. I cannot see any fiscal, nor operational, benefit to having a segregated system. (Barring the rare system malfunction.)


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#39
There are some 45 municipalities in the county with a few patrolled by MSP and others by the Sheriffs' department. Couple that with a complicated "patch" system like they have now to adjacent agencies is a very risky scenario in the event of a mass response. Shame on Oakland County for putting their personal interests ahead of the public and officer's safety.

The current patch system, for the most part doesn't work. There is no direct access to the mpscs from the current system. There are a couple of patch channels that don't work. They specifically said you could try calling on them, but there's no guarantee someone will answer.

Interop doesn't exist. It's so bad there was a chase that started in Madison Heights and went to a foot pursuit/search. Madison Heights Police (OpenSky) could not communicate with MSP (MPSCS) while searching for the suspects while searching the area.

The only other option is to reboot your radio to access the 7/800 calling channels.
Then you have to reboot to OTP mode to get back on OpenSky.

For the most part, the voice quality and signal are pretty good with OpenSky, at least in the metro areas.
 
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Dec 31, 2005
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#40
OpenSky Voice Quality/System Sound

M/A-Com M7200 left on scan mode. The beep means a call is going out on your primary group and the radio is returning to that group to receive the call.
This is just general groups, nothing important. The recording is three years old anyway and since the system is going away soon, I'd like for you to be able to hear first hand how it sounds.
 
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